Help - Hard Starting 55 Ford Truck

J

jlawrence

Junior Member
Hi All,


I’m a new member. This is my first post under Late V8.

Looking for input for a hard starting engine .... I can't start driving my truck around the neighborhood until I solve the starting issue. I believe the engine is a 239V8 or a 272V8. It starts okay when the engine is warm i.e. the starter turns the engine over a couple of times and then runs. It doesn't start very well when cold. The carb has been rebuilt. The gas tank has been cleaned out. There is a new fuel pump and fuel filter. There is good spark to all the plugs. There is a new battery. The starter motor turns fast. After the engine does not run for a day or two there is plenty of gas in the carb bowl such that the accelerator pump squirts out a good stream of gas. One thing I haven't figured out is what is the best formula when doing a cold start i.e. use the manual choke or pump it (think it is something more complicated than this but not sure). I usually can start it cold after half a dozen tries which is hard on the starter motor. One thing I have noticed is that it does seem to be fairly easy to foul some of the plugs with gas. Anyway this is frustrating. Don't know if this is a serious issue or something simple.

Would appreciate some comments or suggestions.


Thanks,
Jerry
 
If the outside temp is about 50 or above, give the gas pedal about one third squirt and pull the choke out no more than half way and try it. Each engine is a little different, but most Y blocks are not sensitive to flooding. You may be giving it a bit to much. When warm, just spin the starter and it should take right off.
 
Same issue here with a Model A
Use to start on the second revolution now it is about the 5th. But when warm she fires on the first rev. Retimed her, cleaned the carb, new bat, good primary and secondary functions, still trying to figure it out. Going to try what Ole Don said about choking half way instead of a full turn. Maybe too much fuel?
 
I would re-torque all the intake bolts and also check the carb bolts, to be sure it isn't sucking air. Also, look over all the vacume hoses and connections, as it will not suck in gas very easy if the vacume is low or leaking.
good luck, and let us know what you find to be the problem. :)




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Sounds like maybe the carb is bleeding down or the fuel in the bowl is evaporating. Before you start it the next time, remove the air cleaner, look down in the carb., pump the accelerator and take notice if any fuel is squirting from the primary jets. If not, the fuel could have evaporated due to the carb "percolating" from heat or the carb could be leaking down due to internal problem. Either of these conditions will cause you to have to crank the engine over considerably to in order to refill the float bowl.
If it's due to heat, you can place a phenolic spacer or heat shield under the carb.The second condition may be the floats are too high and need to be reset or the fuel pressure is too high and a regulator needs to be installed. Keep the pressure around 3-4 lbs.
 
Hi All,


I really appreciate the input; this is exactly what I need. Although I have not yet solved the problem there is some change. Here’s what I did ……

As a starting point I dried out the plugs which have been wet in the past after trying to start. Although the engine was cold it fired right up because the dry plugs simulated a warm engine. I let the engine set overnight and then used all the suggestions you made.


Input from Lanny: First I re-torqued the intake and carb bolts although they seemed tight enough already. For now I plugged up a vacuum port that went to the windshield wiper motor; this looked like it may have been leaking some.

Input from Bob37: I double-checked the accelerator pump and it did squirt out a stream of gas. One thing I noticed on a previous test a week ago is right after the engine was running I shut it off and noted the carb bowl was 2/3 full. After setting for 24 hours the bowl was about 1/3 full (too much leakage?).


Input from Ole Don: I used the starting formula of a small squirt of gas from the accelerator pump and about half choke.


Then I tried to start the cold engine. It almost started right away after a few turns. I cranked several more times and it didn’t start. Next I pulled out some of the plugs and they were already wet causing the NO-START. In this scenario I only half choked and used a small squirt from the accelerator pump before cranking.

So I’m still not there. Please keep the suggestions coming.

Thank you much,
Jerry
 
The carb should really not lose fuel from the float bowl overnight. If it is dripping down then it might start hard because it is flooded. If this is the case you need to get to the bottom of it. You don't want the cylinders flooded with gas as it will wash down the cylinder walls and casue premature wear of the rings and cylinders. I would try another carb if one is available. Don't forget to check the fuel pressure and keep it lo 3-4 psi.
 
All of the above posts are good, and I would initially say that you need to check the power valve in that carb...seems like that would be the culprit. I have seen some carbs leak down like that, but they never caused such hard starting. Usually when the fuel would leak down, it would only make it's way down to the cylinder runners (stacked intake ports on a Y) on the lower end of things - especially on a 2 barrell intake.

did you also check the timing? Sometimes just a tick or two back on the timing will give you an ignition that starts much sooner. If you've got spark, compression, and fuel, then you should be ready for action. Now it's all a matter of timing. What is your initial timing? I would try to retard your spark just a little bit...don't forget to watch your temp gauge as you make adjustments.
 
Years ago, as I remember, I had a hard starting engine, especially when cold.

I checked fuel, spark, timing, etc, etc.

I had pulled a couple plugs to check the spark, and they sparked, so I thought
the spark was OK.... Wrong.

A good mechanic freind of my dads told me that the spark was MAYBE way too weak.
He told me to check the cap and rotor, and sure enough, the cap was really corroded,
and the rotor was worn out and also corroded bad. I did replace the points and
condensor at that time too, and that solved the cold start problem on it.

Drove it for a year, and it allways started good, but I traded it in on
a newer '58 Ford convert....Auhhhh, the good ol' days.:)




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Like Lanny says, a spark isnt always a spark. You need a HOT spark. I had trouble like this on one old car, I replaced the coil wire and all the trouble went away. It would run fine sometimes, but was hard to start. One new coil wire it is always started on the first try and ran like a million bucks. Never give up!
 
Are the grounds and cable connections clean and if it is 6 volts are the cables the right size (they were larger diameter for 6 volt than 12 volt)? Cheap place to start looking.

Charlie Stephens
 
I run a factory 272 with 2bbl carb. The original owners manual says push accellerator down once and release before cranking engine. I always do that and it always starts. If I dont do it, Ihave trouble starting it.
Pull out the choke in varying degrees depending upon how cold it is, and push the choke in by varying degrees in a few minutes till engine warms up. In hot weather, or whenever engine has already warmed up, I dont use the choke at all.
 
Charlie Stephens said:
Are the grounds and cable connections clean and if it is 6 volts are the cables the right size (they were larger diameter for 6 volt than 12 volt)? Cheap place to start looking.

Charlie Stephens
Click to expand...

More good advise here. If your cables are bad or too small or the grounds are bad, it will crank over, but you may not get enough spark out of the ignition. I had a '40 Ford that was difficult starting( turned over well) and one day while trying to start it, a friend saw a slight whiff of smoke come off the ground cable connection on the firewall. Once repaired, it started like a champ.
Also make sure to ground the engine and battery to the chassis, not just a firewall or fender panel.
 
Thanks for your help. I am a junior mechanic, but I feel this dialog is like
having a mechanic under the hood with me. More information on the starting issue ..............

I ran the engine for 15 minutes and shut it off. The carb float bowl was about 3/4 inch from the top (seemed about right). I let this set for 36 hours and rechecked the bowl level; it went down about 1/4 to 3/8 inch (no cranking). Don't know why .... valve in the bottom of carb? leaky needle / seat? This new lower level does permit the accelerator pump to pump a stream of gas. Is this leakage acceptable?

Earlier new battery cables were installed for this 12v system. One change I did make based on what a mechanic insisted I do is to move the negative battery cable from the frame to the motor.

I checked the fuel pump pressure which measured 5 psi (did without running the engine; used the starter motor and a hot battery). The earlier recommendation was 3 to 4 psi is best. So do I need to put on a regulator?

One thing I noticed was that my dwell angle reads 27 degrees (which is what it supposed to be) when using the starter motor but reads 20 degrees when the engine is running. Never noticed this before and may be a part of the problem. Does this make sense?

Thanks Jerry
 
The difference in the dwell reading probably means that the dist bushing is warn which means the points are not opening and closeing correctly at all times, and that could definately be your problem, or one of your problems at least.




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Definitely check the dist bushing. As far as the 5psi, you should be ok with that. Connecting the battery neg to the engine is a good Idea, I would also run another cable from the engine to the frame. This will not affect starting, but it will ensure proper negative through out the electrical system. Losing 1/4 inch in the float bowl could be evaporation, especially if the carb percolates a little after shut-down. The fact that it still sprays from the accel pump indicates no fuel on start-up is unlikely the culprit.
 
I dont know how they did it on the trucks, but on the '55 cars, there was a heavy gage ground strap bolted at the backside of the front frame crossmember and the other end of it was bolted to the engine front steadyrest bracket. Both are fastened with a self-tapping lagscrew with a 3/8" hex head. An identical ground strap bolted to the left head on the engine and other end of it to the firewall to achieve body ground.
 
New info on the starting issue. First to answer Daves55Sedan .... my 55 Ford truck has a similar grounding approach as on the cars.

I made a few changes that have greatly improved the starting issue. Although everything seemed okay, I filed the contacts on the wires in the distributor and the one coming into the distributor. I also reset the dwell to 27 degrees in the running mode; previously the dwell was set by turning over the starter motor without the truck running which had a difference of 6 degrees. Now the truck is kicking off and running after 3 or 4 turns of the motor whether the engine is cold or warm, although the weather has really warmed up this last week. The way I have started it is not by choking or squirting gas with the accelerator pump, but rather by just turning over the engine. So I will now test with a small squirt and a slight choke to see if it starts quicker. But for now I'm pretty happy.

I have question ...... currently each wire and plug when put against the block shows a yellow spark; same for the coil wire. Someone had indicated it should be blue. Does this mean I have room for improvement?

One more question .... previously the truck would barely start if I kept the plugs dried out with a torch because they were getting fouled. Is that what should you would expect i.e. plugs would get wet and foul out simply because of ginding on the starter without starting.

Thank you for your help.
Jerry
 
I dont mean to open up another can of worms here, but it should help to remove your carb and cut out a spacer from 3/8 inch phenolic stock using a hole saw in your drill for the two barrel holes. Use an old carb gasket for the outline and cut it out with a little sabre-saw. You will need to remove the 3 original carb mounting studs out of the manifold and replace them with longer ones. Doing this will drastically reduce or eliminate the gas boiling in the carb. While you have the carb out check to see if it is dripping gas down the barrels with the throttle link pulled back. If so you might need to rebuild the carb. Bear in mind if it is dripping out after the engine is shut off, there would be some immediate evaporation due to the heat in the intake but gas will collect in the "fins" down inside the intake and if there is enough drippage you could be flooding your engine. This condition will cause problems if you are taking several short trips at a time.
 
I'll monitor closely over the summer months to see if gas leakage into the manifold continues as before, and if it does I'll definitely install the phenloic spacer and probably will anyway. Right now the engine starts quickly the last 10 times I've tried it so there has been no problem as long as I do not choke the carb or use the accelerator pump while starting. Now I plan to start driving around town to see what happens. Question - is it harder to flood out an engine on colder days or warmer days?
Thanks
Jery
 
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