Brake Frustration

[Patrick brophy]

If there was a disc brake upgrade, the OEM wheels will not work without spacers and depending on caliper size may require a 15" wheel.

I would go to the repro vendors and get the specs. You can also have a steel wheel custom made. Save the money and aggravation unless you come across a set for a future dedicated restoration $$$.

Which brake kit did you use? Is this a dedicated resto? If not, OEM wheels are not needed IMO. Also, the OEM KH wheels are not vented for disc, another consideration.

I bought the disc brakes from Hill's restorations.They only deal in Thunderbird parts and restorations.The setup was complete and packed in three boxes.i did not see any brand names,however everything fit like a glove.
I have a full set of 1957 Thunderbird wheel covers.I like the way they look.
I also like the Kelsey Hayes wire wheel,however a set of those run well over $2500.00, with out the wide white tires..
Since I have the wheel covers I thought that was the better way to go.
I have been hesitant about the reproduction wheels since I have not heard anything about them.
One gets a little gun shy when you ask Thunderbird part venders about them and get a "we wouldn't sell brand x" or "if it don't have fomoco on it we will not buy it,and neither should you".

That said, is there a reproduction company that sells a decent wheel,and if so where are they located.

 

[51504bat]

I bought the disc brakes from Hill's restorations.They only deal in Thunderbird parts and restorations.The setup was complete and packed in three boxes.i did not see any brand names,however everything fit like a glove.
I have a full set of 1957 Thunderbird wheel covers.I like the way they look.
I also like the Kelsey Hayes wire wheel,however a set of those run well over $2500.00, with out the wide white tires..
Since I have the wheel covers I thought that was the better way to go.
I have been hesitant about the reproduction wheels since I have not heard anything about them.
One gets a little gun shy when you ask Thunderbird part venders about them and get a "we wouldn't sell brand x" or "if it don't have fomoco on it we will not buy it,and neither should you".

That said, is there a reproduction company that sells a decent wheel,and if so where are they located.

You might try Wheel Smith in Corona, CA
https://thewheelsmith.net/

The Wheelsmith wheel line includes custom and standard sized Wire, Rallye, Billet Aluminum, Smoothie Steel, Artillery, Vintage and OEM wheels.

 

[KULTULZ]

This subject is really starting to get interesting and since I continue to be trapped in a steep learning curve ...

You say the DISC KIT came from Hill. Did they say the kit would work with OEM wheels or did you have to change wheels (spacer kit) or you did not have the correct wheel (or same size wheel) to begin with?

While I like the look of the later BIRD KH WIRES, to me they do not look appropriate on an early BIRD (IMO). Maybe if an appropriate center cap was available instead of the spinner.

Are you familiar with the wire wheel covers of that era? Are you thinking of using the 57 skirts?

OTHERS - All of this discussion pertains to 57 BIRD only as the wheel sizing was unique to 57 BIRD only.

 

[Patrick brophy]

This subject is really starting to get interesting and since I continue to be trapped in a steep learning curve ...

You say the DISC KIT came from Hill. Did they say the kit would work with OEM wheels or did you have to change wheels (spacer kit) or you did not have the correct wheel (or same size wheel) to begin with?

While I like the look of the later BIRD KH WIRES, to me they do not look appropriate on an early BIRD (IMO). Maybe if an appropriate center cap was available instead of the spinner.

Are you familiar with the wire wheel covers of that era? Are you thinking of using the 57 skirts?

OTHERS - All of this discussion pertains to 57 BIRD only as the wheel sizing was unique to 57 BIRD only.

I have never had the correct wheels. When I obtained the car it had a set of wheels off of ,I was told , a 1969 Mach 1.
Both the front wheels had a half inch spacer behind them to keep them from rubbing.
When I purchased the disc setup from Hill's, they made no mention of having to change wheels, or for that matter use a spacer with the disc brakes.
I did inquire at Hill's about wheels for a 1957 Thunderbird.They informed me that they had a list.That quote gave me little hope.
I am planning on using the fender skirts.

 

[dmsfrr]

I have never had the correct wheels. When I obtained the car it had a set of wheels off of ,I was told , a 1969 Mach 1.
Both the front wheels had a half inch spacer behind them to keep them from rubbing.
When I purchased the disc setup from Hill's, they made no mention of having to change wheels, or for that matter use a spacer with the disc brakes.
I did inquire at Hill's about wheels for a 1957 Thunderbird.They informed me that they had a list.That quote gave me little hope.
I am planning on using the fender skirts.

The tech support folks (or the owner) at Hill's should be able to tell you which wheels you need to fit over their brand of new calipers, and also behind the skirts. They've put those disc brake kits on customers cars.

https://hillsresto.com/contact/

I believe the oem style wheels should have FoMoCo and KH markings on them between the lugnut holes.

 

[KULTULZ]

The tech support folks (or the owner) at Hill's should be able to tell you which wheels you need to fit over their brand of new calipers, and behind the skirts.

No, they should make that known in their cataloging description before someone buys the kit and finds out the OEM wheel will not fit. I see no such warning in Hill's cataloging.

If someone has the correct wheels and then finds out he needs a wheel swap isn't the way to go about it.

 

[KULTULZ]

I have never had the correct wheels. When I obtained the car it had a set of wheels off of ,I was told , a 1969 Mach 1. Both the front wheels had a half inch spacer behind them to keep them from rubbing.

Are the wheels stamped steel - 14 or 15"? There were several different widths in that period. The spacers were to prevent the rim/tire from rubbing the ball joint(s)?

When I purchased the disc setup from Hill's, they made no mention of having to change wheels, or for that matter use a spacer with the disc brakes.

So one would assume the OEM wheel would clear the caliper.

I am planning on using the fender skirts.

So you are going to need either the original or a replacement with the correct offset for the rear..

One thing though, their kit uses the KH 4-Piston Caliper and if the correct sized caliper was chosen (65/66 MUST) you have a greater chance of finding a workable wheel.

You are going to use the 57 deluxe full wheel cover and not the wire wheel cover?

 

[Patrick brophy]

You might try Wheel Smith in Corona, CA
https://thewheelsmith.net/

The Wheelsmith wheel line includes custom and standard sized Wire, Rallye, Billet Aluminum, Smoothie Steel, Artillery, Vintage and OEM wheels.

Thanks 51504bat,I will give them a call.

 

[Patrick brophy]

Are the wheels stamped steel - 14 or 15"? There were several different widths in that period. The spacers were to prevent the rim/tire from rubbing the ball joint(s)?


So one would assume the OEM wheel would clear the caliper.


So you are going to need either the original or a replacement with the correct offset for the rear..

One thing though, their kit uses the KH 4-Piston Caliper and if the correct sized caliper was chosen (65/66 MUST) you have a greater chance of finding a workable wheel.

You are going to use the 57 deluxe full wheel cover and not the wire wheel cover?

The wheels I have now are not marked 14 or 15,they a marked 9mc on one side and a6 on the other. The tires however are 14 inch.
Without the spacer, the tire rubs on the ball joint.
The full Deluxe wheel cover with the white paint, not the wire wheel cover.

 

[dmsfrr]

This subject is really starting to get interesting and since I continue to be trapped in a steep learning curve ...
. . .

. . .
You are going to use the 57 deluxe full wheel cover and not the wire wheel cover?

'57 T-Birds did not have an original option wire style wheelcover for their 14" wheels, just one style of full wheelcover.
'55 & '56 T-Birds with their standard 15' wheels did have an optional 2 piece wire style wheelcover. Red centers in '55 and white centers in '56, provided by the dog-dish center caps for those years.

 

[dmsfrr]

I have never had the correct wheels. When I obtained the car it had a set of wheels off of ,I was told , a 1969 Mach 1.
Both the front wheels had a half inch spacer behind them to keep them from rubbing.
When I purchased the disc setup from Hill's, they made no mention of having to change wheels, or for that matter use a spacer with the disc brakes.
. . .

Did you tell them the '57 Bird you were buying the disc brake kit for didn't have original wheels and ask their advice before buying the brake kit?
If not, they likely assumed it had original wheels.

 

[KULTULZ]

I stand corrected.

TURBINE WHEEL COVER

 

[miker98038]

I only know about the 15" wheels on my 55 bird, but some dimensions are going to be similar.

The early Ford rims had a smaller hub opening than the later wheels. On disc brake conversions using Granada rotors, the center hub is turned down to allow the wheel to fit. Later wheels that center on the lug nuts go on. I've read, but don't know that the early wheels should not have the center hole opened up. It's a safety/cracking issue as regards the wheel construction.

If the spacer is to clear the upper ball joint, the problem is probably the back spacing. Since it's a tire side wall problem it's partially dependent on the tire. My bird has 15x 7" front wheels with 3 1/2 in backspace. With 225/60 tires, I have under 1/2" to the upper ball joint from the sidewall. Some have said a 4" backspace will work, in my case that would require very little sidewall bulge.

If the tire was dismounted would the wheel go on without the spacers? Because if it won't it's likely hitting the caliper. I've been involved with several 14" disc brake conversions for OT cars where you must fit later model "disc brake" wheels to make the conversions. These were all GM products. But you do need to know caliper clearance.

Some years back Wheelsmith made me a set of 15x7 rims, custom backspace, to put 10" cheater slicks on the back of the bird. That allowed me to run the same small Ford center cap (dog dish) front and rear on stock fronts. But that was the more common 15" wheel. They're worth a phone call.

Given Hill's reputation, I'd bet stock 14" wheels fit fine. But before you spend a bunch on either modified or stock wheels double check that. Knowing the dimension of the current wheels, per dmsfrr post above would provide some clues.