choosing brake drums for 1940 ford
- Thread starter hope
- Start date
Kube
Super Moderator
I'm only guessing there is a question here somewhere?
hope
Senior Member
I finally was able to post a picture of my brake system(don't ask me how, i don't know.)
this write up is probably not on the same page as the photo, but that's the best i can do.
Now to my question, i need to buy two rear brake drums for the 40, and all i see in , and what i see of the Bendix systems is not like what i got.
So will the drums offered as to fit the Bendix system fit my system. Don't want to order the wrong ones AAAHHGGG.
Hope
this write up is probably not on the same page as the photo, but that's the best i can do.
Now to my question, i need to buy two rear brake drums for the 40, and all i see in , and what i see of the Bendix systems is not like what i got.
So will the drums offered as to fit the Bendix system fit my system. Don't want to order the wrong ones AAAHHGGG.
Hope
philipswanson
Well-known member
At least run the Bendix brakes up front. Much improvement over juice brakes.
19Fordy
Well-known member
The grease retainer is on up side down. Should look like this. Round part with lip faces down. The MT brake drums will work with your stock brakes and backing plate. If you want bendix brakes you also have to install MT Products backing plates. Call them to verify what parts you need like new rear hubs and seals. Use your stock OEM Ford wheel bearings. Here's website:
http://www.mtcarproducts.com/Brakes.html
http://www.mtcarproducts.com/Brakes.html
Attachments
Last edited:
Mart
Well-known member
Hope, as mentioned above, the grease retainer is upside down. Flat side to the top to clear the spring. Can't advise re the drums but the shoes should have one long lining and one short one. Long goes to the front, along with the big end of the cylinder. (Which appears to be correct).
If the shoes were fitted as a set the two short ones might be on the other side.
Mart.
If the shoes were fitted as a set the two short ones might be on the other side.
Mart.
V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
Many of the replacement Lockheed-type brake shoe sets that I have seen have the long linings on both the front AND rear shoes. I'm not sure that both linings being long has any negative affect on braking forces....as long as the FRONT lining is indeed of the "long" variety. But, what do I know? DD
V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
The key point determining whether the new drums will function properly between the LOCKHEED-type and the BENDIX-type is the "offset" of the backing plates. If you will look at each of the two types of b/plates, the center mounting surface with the four bolt holes juts-out toward you at a dimension of something like 5/8"-3/4" or so. That is the "offset" we mention. If you'll notice, the brake shoes and wheel cylinder are "offset" INBOARD by this 5/8-3/4" or so, going by visual rather than me actually going out and measuring one. Just so happens that the offset of the Ford Lockheed b/plate is the same as the offset on the Bendix-type b/plates. This "offset" is important because it determines how far inboard, OR how far outboard the brake drum must sit so as not to rub on the backing plate, yet be close enough to the backing plate to fully cover the brake shoe linings. It is a known fact that you can successfully use STOCK '40 FORD BRAKE DRUM/HUB assemblies with the BENDIX-type backing plates. This suggests to me that the offset on a NEW BENDIX drum should be the same as an OLD '40 FORD DRUM.
The important question now is...HOW are you planning on doing this replacement? Are you planning on using the reproduction BENDIX rear hub along with the NEW BENDIX rear drums? If so, you're golden! Check-out the pictures "19Fourdy" posted above of his BENDIX-type drums and rear hubs.
If you're planning on replacing the NEW BENDIX drums on your OLD FORD hubs, do you realize that removing the drum from the hub takes a special process to accomplish correctly? You must cut away the swaged lip on each wheel stud to be able to de-mate the drum from the hub. This process deems the wheel studs as junk and they must be replaced. it's not just a matter of getting new studs and pounding them into the hub flange. New, slightly-OVERSIZE (diameter) studs of appropriate length must be purchased, and the five stud holes in the hub flange must be reamed to the appropriate size to receive the new studs as they are pressed into place. The new studs will need to be slightly longer than the stock studs were as the NEW drum's mounting surface is thicker than the surface on a stock drum. Simple as pie, huh? Hoping this answers your question. Note the similar offsets on the two different backing plate designs below. DD
……...
deuce lover
Well-known member
Brake shoes linings are both the same.Shouldn't be a short on the rear and long on front?
Last edited:
19Fordy
Well-known member
Yes, as shown in photo up above in #6 entry, the short shoe faces rearward and long shoe faces forward as does the larger dia. of the wheel cylinder.
I wonder if using 2 long shoes makes any difference in stopping distance or amount of pressure needed on the brake pedal? Anyone know?
Plus, it's probably cheaper to make 2 only the long brake shoe as I think you can flip it over and use it on front and rear of drum.
If you use the complete backing plate, drum,etc. package they will supply you with either stock 1 3/4 in/ wide brake shoes or 2 in wide. Let them know as different length spring pin retainer pins are also supplied, depending on what you use.
I wonder if using 2 long shoes makes any difference in stopping distance or amount of pressure needed on the brake pedal? Anyone know?
Plus, it's probably cheaper to make 2 only the long brake shoe as I think you can flip it over and use it on front and rear of drum.
If you use the complete backing plate, drum,etc. package they will supply you with either stock 1 3/4 in/ wide brake shoes or 2 in wide. Let them know as different length spring pin retainer pins are also supplied, depending on what you use.
hope
Senior Member
Thanks All for the reply, and COOPMAN i appreciate the detailed information, but i wasn't planning on replacing all the backing plates and hub, i just wanted to replace the rear drums to the system i have witch i believe are Lockeed.The key point determining whether the new drums will function properly between the LOCKHEED-type and the BENDIX-type is the "offset" of the backing plates. If you will look at each of the two types of b/plates, the center mounting surface with the four bolt holes juts-out toward you at a dimension of something like 5/8"-3/4" or so. That is the "offset" we mention. If you'll notice, the brake shoes and wheel cylinder are "offset" INBOARD by this 5/8-3/4" or so, going by visual rather than me actually going out and measuring one. Just so happens that the offset of the Ford Lockheed b/plate is the same as the offset on the Bendix-type b/plates. This "offset" is important because it determines how far inboard, OR how far outboard the brake drum must sit so as not to rub on the backing plate, yet be close enough to the backing plate to fully cover the brake shoe linings. It is a known fact that you can successfully use STOCK '40 FORD BRAKE DRUM/HUB assemblies with the BENDIX-type backing plates. This suggests to me that the offset on a NEW BENDIX drum should be the same as an OLD '40 FORD DRUM.
The important question now is...HOW are you planning on doing this replacement? Are you planning on using the reproduction BENDIX rear hub along with the NEW BENDIX rear drums? If so, you're golden! Check-out the pictures "19Fourdy" posted above of his BENDIX-type drums and rear hubs.
If you're planning on replacing the NEW BENDIX drums on your OLD FORD hubs, do you realize that removing the drum from the hub takes a special process to accomplish correctly? You must cut away the swaged lip on each wheel stud to be able to de-mate the drum from the hub. This process deems the wheel studs as junk and they must be replaced. it's not just a matter of getting new studs and pounding them into the hub flange. New, slightly-OVERSIZE (diameter) studs of appropriate length must be purchased, and the five stud holes in the hub flange must be reamed to the appropriate size to receive the new studs as they are pressed into place. The new studs will need to be slightly longer than the stock studs were as the NEW drum's mounting surface is thicker than the surface on a stock drum. Simple as pie, huh? Hoping this answers your question. Note the similar offsets on the two different backing plate designs below. DD
……...
So i'm still confused as to the fitment of available drums to the system i have. My (budget) at the present time is somewhat Limited.
Hope
V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
Thanks All for the reply, and COOPMAN i appreciate the detailed information, but i wasn't planning on replacing all the backing plates and hub, i just wanted to replace the rear drums to the system i have witch i believe are Lockeed.
So i'm still confused as to the fitment of available drums to the system i have. My (budget) at the present time is somewhat Limited.
Hope
Hope......I wasn't trying to suggest that you replace all of those parts. I was merely attempting to rationalize (through the different combinations of all those parts that ARE known to work together) why I thought your particular request would work.
But......you still have not made it clear whether you want to replace your rear drums ONLY with new MT BENDIX drums on YOUR Ford rear hubs, or if you intend to employ the new MT BENDIX drums with MT BENDIX rear hubs. I tried to be explicitly clear with my lengthy, and hopefully concise post. I know there is a lot of confusing nomenclature to absorb there. DD
19Fordy
Well-known member
Hope: Since you say: "I wasn't planning on replacing all the backing plates and hub, I just wanted to replace the rear drums to the system I have witch I believe are Lockeed." Then all you need to do is buy the MT drums if you can figure a way to replace the old studs in you OEM hubs or separate the stock drum from the stock hub in such a way that won't destroy the OEM studs. The MT drums will fit just like the originals and you will still have Lockheed brakes just like the system you now have.
I know you want to reuse the OEM hubs but, it's a lot easier and probably cheaper to switch to the MT hubs. Then you will be able to remove your brake drum without having to literally "PULL" the hubs of with a wheel puller.
I know you want to reuse the OEM hubs but, it's a lot easier and probably cheaper to switch to the MT hubs. Then you will be able to remove your brake drum without having to literally "PULL" the hubs of with a wheel puller.
Attachments
Last edited:
hope
Senior Member
Av8Coopeman & 19fordy Thanks again for putting up with my confusing statements. So let me blame it on (OLD AGE at 84) Every once in a while i seem ready to throw in the towel, but i just can't let go, (keeps me busy and out of trouble).
Yes i do want to use new drums on my old hubs. and if that's too involved i will let my OLDEST son deal with this when he gets the car, when i'm no longer of this world.
And he's no mechanic by any means.
Yes i do want to use new drums on my old hubs. and if that's too involved i will let my OLDEST son deal with this when he gets the car, when i'm no longer of this world.
And he's no mechanic by any means.
JSeery
Member Emeritus
Hope, I didn't re-read the whole thread, but are your current drums swaged to the lug bolts? That is the issue here. You have to be able to get the drums off of the hubs without damaging anything. I have run across a lot of hubs both front and rear that have be separated sometime in the past and have removal drums. If you still have the swaged drums then you are going to have to figure out how to deal with that.