Powerhouse Bakelite Rings

sethkestenbaum

sethkestenbaum

Well-known member
After having no luck finding a quality back up powerhouse without a broken brushholder, I am researching making/manufacturing of replacement rings for the powerhouse generator. Pricing is going to be partially a function of demand and how many are needed (three-brush and five-brush). I am curious how many fordbarners have been looking for quality bakelite replacement rings. Please note that this is "rings only" and people would need to install the actual metal parts themselves. Let me know via this post if you think there is demand. If i can "prove demand", this becomes more realistic.

Thanks
 
Yes, I am the person who approached Jeff (at Brattons) after doing some of the legwork. I figure he is a good person to work with as I am not a parts retailer or manufacturer. I know he posted to one of the other sites.
 
That is one of the questions I have out to a plastics engineer. "What alternative materials that look like the original could work better? Why would it be better? Is there a material that won't be as fragile as the original?"
 
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Micarta sheet is made on the bakelite formula of phenolic plastic with paper or cotton reinforcement and is still used extensively for circuit boards. A lot of the availability question is about what thickness is required. There are more than a few suppliers of micarta sheet stock. It can be machined or cut if a person has the proper dies and/or equipment.
 
sethkestenbaum said:
That is one of the questions I have out to a plastics engineer. "What alternative materials that look like the original could work better? Why would it be better? Is there a material that won't be as fragile as the original?"
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Seth, draw it up in SolidWorks and have it 3D printed on an as-needed basis. Will last forever. You really just need to pull the print and draw off of that. Then export the file to someone who has a decent quality printer.
 
If there is a CAD file already made, I'd be happy to print a test part on my 3d printer.

If there is no CAD file made, does anyone have some measurements and details on fitment? I could try and make something up.

There is no need to have new bakelite made today, unless it's for show judging, which even then, you can 3D print brown plastic. 3D printing one of these rings would probably take only an hour and cost a few dollars.
 
ndnchf said:
Did this project ever get off the ground? There certainly is a need for them.
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Nope. The Benson Ford Research Center has been closed all this time where none of us can go look at the print(s). I was just up in Dearborn a few weeks ago and asked a couple of curator friends about the possibility of it re-opening. They said they had not heard of any plans being discussed for its re-opening.
 
Can the pieces of a broken one be measured to give the needed information for a 3D printer?
 
katy said:
Can the pieces of a broken one be measured to give the needed information for a 3D printer?
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Possibly. The issue I would be worried about is that we always complain about reproduction parts that are 'reverse-engineered'.

Just one more part of this too. The scope of this project is not really as simple as it initially seems. The piece will need to be drawn in a modeling program. We use Fusion 360 at my shop but SolidWorks is likely better software. Then it will need to be 3D drawn and modeled. For our printer, it is likely a 15-20 hour print. Then it would need to be tested and flogged for awhile to make sure it is not going to have issues due to heat or vibration. This may require it to be printed with several different types of filaments to see what is best. Then it will likely need to go to a 3D Print Farm to have a small beta batch made to put it into the hands of some folks who can make sure there are not going to be issues. So as you can see, while it appears to be a great idea, the logistics is a tad more involved.
 
The real challenge is not so much the fabrication of the insulated ring as it is transferring the three legs and brush holders. A person would need the correct tube rivets and tooling to drive them plus keeping proper alignment to the housing and the commutator end of the armature. It's doable but would certainly require a careful procedure. Fabricating multiple parts would require accurate jig set up to repeat a quality fabrication.

To manufacture new parts, all parts would need to be accurately reproduced. It would be easier to rebuild the originals utilizing the original pieces that are still serviceable.
 
J Franklin said:
Couldn't they be made of modern insulating fiber instead of Bakalite?
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It has been several years now since I sold one of those rings made from just the material you mention. I later heard from the buyer that he got 2 generators going from what I sold him, that ring being in one. It came to me in a box of electrical stuff from a deceased estate, I think so I have no way of finding out any more.
It seems to me that 3D printing or CNC machining of a suitable fibre material would be the way to go.
 
Wouldn't it be easier to just find a doner powerhouse generator with an intact brush holder? They're at pretty much every swap meet I go to.
 
A lot of them may be cracked so it pays to pull the cover and look at it closely. There is usually a reason that they were taken out of service. Bakelite was good plastic but 90+ years would be hard on anything made of plastic. It's not getting any easier to find stuff like that.
 
I have fixed several brush rings with JB Weld. A couple were in 3 pieces. I made a jig with a SS hose clamp on the outside, applied the JBW and let it sit for 48 hours. Still working fine after 6 years +.
 
For clean breaks, super glue works great. Clean the bolen area thoroughly first. Then a couple drops of super glue. Hold the parts together for a minute. Its good to go. I've repaired quite a few this way.
 
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