Starting problem on 272 engine

zoegrant

zoegrant

Well-known member
I removed the distributor on my 272 engine so I could work on the distributor on my bench to replace the points & condenser. and generally just clean it up.
When replacing the distributor I used a remote starter to bring the pointer on the crank to the timing marks and double checked to see that I had movement in both intake and exhaust valves to make sure I was not 180 out.

Then I played around with the distributor till it dropped in place making sure that the rotor is pointed to the #1 plug
Then using a test light which I hooked up to the distributor and a ground on the engine block and with the ignition on I turned the distributor until the light lit up,I thought that it should start and then I could set the timing.
** it wouldn't start...all it does is cough and pop out of the carb. Sounds like a timing problem but shouldn't it try to start ? The new points and condenser looked the same as the old set. I believe they were for 312 engine that I used to have.
WHERE DID I SCREW UP ???
 
Yes, the timing mark for cyl #1 on the pulley comes around twice during each cycle of the engine. TDC of the exhaust stroke and TDC of the compression stroke.

To make sure the engine is on the compression stroke, with the right/passenger side valve cover off, turn the engine it's normal direction until the cyl 1 intake valve (photo 1) opens & closes then approx 1/4 turn (or slightly less) until the pulley timing marks line up.
Then install the distributor, with the rotor at plug wire #1.

With the #1 spark plug out and your finger (or wooden dowel, drinking straw...) in the hole you can feel the piston stop moving when it gets to TDC. That position should align with the crank pulley "0" or TDC timing mark, unless you have a pulley style with timing marks on the weight ring that can slip out of position.

The points changed from '56 to '57+, it depends on what year(s) of distributor and points you have.

Photo 2. The diagram shows the correct rotational position of the distributor, it's cap spring clips & plug wires, in relation to the engine itself.
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Since you apparently have the distributor installed 180 degrees off, you can put the distributor rotor at the # 1 terminal aligned with the TDC mark, remove the distributor, turn the engine 1 revolution back on the TDC mark, and reinstall the distributor.
 
zoegrant said:
I removed the distributor on my 272 engine so I could work on the distributor on my bench to replace the points & condenser. and generally just clean it up.

When replacing the distributor I used a remote starter to bring the pointer on the crank to the timing marks and double checked to see that I had movement in both intake and exhaust valves to make sure I was not 180 out.
Click to expand...

Just a suggestion-

You should have brought the #1 cyl to TDC firing before removing the DIST if you were satisfied the balancer TDC marker may not have moved on the balancer (confirming the balancer was clocked correctly).

Then remove and replace DIST.


What year engine is it?
 
Part of the problem also was the way you used the test light to set the initial timing. You are supposed to rotate the distributor (clockwise) until the test light just goes out (when the points open). You did it when the light goes on (points closed). Do this after your sure the distributor is not 180 degrees off.


Sal
 
Kultulz…..the engine is a 1955 ...yes, in retrospect your idea to remove the dist only after getting the engine to TDC is a good one...
 
ok...so I double checked everything and I appear to be on top dead center and still popping thru the carburetor with no start.
So I removed the distributor again to put back the old points and condenser to see if that will help.....the old ones seemed ok but had been in the car for about 6 years.
IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THIS COULD BE A COIL PROBLEM ? The reason I ask that is that I had been having an issue with what I thought could be a coil or condenser breakdown.
After car warmed up, upon acceleration the car would start to buck like it would if it was running out of fuel. I checked all fuel related items and all proved good so I thought coil or condenser problems was the culprit. I thought that I would check the points before I bought a new coil and here I am.
 
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Bucking and missing under load sounds more like a spark plug problem. After you get the timing sorted, try a new set of NGK plugs. They lasted for me better than any other brand.
 
zoegrant said:
Kultulz…..the engine is a 1955 ...yes, in retrospect your idea to remove the dist only after getting the engine to TDC is a good one...
Click to expand...

zoegrant said:
ok...so I double checked everything and I appear to be on top dead center and still popping thru the carburetor with no start.

So I removed the distributor again to put back the old points and condenser to see if that will help.....the old ones seemed ok but had been in the car for about 6 years.

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THIS COULD BE A COIL PROBLEM ? The reason I ask that is that I had been having an issue with what I thought could be a coil or condenser breakdown.

After car warmed up, upon acceleration the car would start to buck like it would if it was running out of fuel. I checked all fuel related items and all proved good so I thought coil or condenser problems was the culprit.

I thought that I would check the points before I bought a new coil and here I am.
Click to expand...

It is a good idea to establish true TDC with a piston stop to verify correct balancer graduations and then go about any other service.

This is a LOAD-O-MATIC dist and not a later DUAL ADVANCE? Did you get the correct points set and of quality? Does the advance work on the dist?

You can check a coil and/or condenser with a multi-meter and if worse comes to worse with the old lady's hair dryer (cheap heat gun).

If it runs poorly after the choke comes off, it may be running too lean. That and state of tune like plugs and wires (valve adj) as stated before.
 
To get the car to start I presume that I do not have to have the vacuum line hooked to the distributor, is that correct ?
Also, I know the rotor has to point to the #1 plug but because the distributor is in the back of the engine and the #1 plug is way up front of the engine it sometimes looks like the rotor is pointing at the #2 plug....is the rotor supposed to be pointing (exactly) at #1 ?
 
Unless you are yanking our leg----The rotor points to the TERMINAL on the distributor cap that has the wire going to #1 plug. Find the wire that goes to #1 plug and mark it on the distributor cap. Then temporarily place the cap on the distributor. Make a mark on the side of the distributor at the #1 plug terminal. Point the rotor at that mark on the distributor.

You don't need the vacuum line hooked up to time the distributor.
 
40 cpe….I was not pulling your leg. I did not know that the rotor should point to the #1 position on the distributor cap...I was thinking that it should point to the #1 spark plug in the engine....thanks for bringing that to my attention.. I will work on that tomorrow.
 
zoegrant said:
40 cpe….I was not pulling your leg. I did not know that the rotor should point to the #1 position on the distributor cap...I was thinking that it should point to the #1 spark plug in the engine....thanks for bringing that to my attention.. ...
Click to expand...
dmsfrr said:
...
Then install the distributor, with the rotor at plug wire #1.
...
The diagram (below) shows the correct rotational position of the distributor, it's cap spring clips & plug wires, in relation to the engine itself.
Click to expand...
Go back and re-read comment #2... and here's a distributor diagram that might be easier to use.
.
 

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Thanks to all who helped me get my car running again....without you guys I would not be able to enjoy this hobby. I got into the old car hobby after I retired from a retail job and did not have any experience with cars, not even when I was a teen.
I am learning a lot from you guys...thanks for taking the time to teach me.
 
The problem was my trying to line the rotor up with the #1 spark plug in the block, not #1 spark plug wire in the cap.
In my mind I understood #1 plug wire to be the plug wire actually attached to the plug in the engine block, not the plug wire in the cap.
The amazing thing is that since I retired I have had no less than 6 cars, two of which I pulled the engines for assorted work and two which I had removed the distributors for work...I must have had to time the engines when putting the engines back in the car. So at one point I must have known that the rotor had to point at the #1 wire in the CAP...but I have no memory of doing that.
I did take up the hobby to keep my mind sharp but somehow it is not working as good as it should...
 
The older Ford engines prior to the 8BA era had fixed distributors. The Load-O-Matic ignition system in the 8BA & early y-block era requires the timing to be set on the distributor by turning it. If you had older cars, that would explain the difference. The vacuum tube to the distributor should be disconnected and plugged while adjusting the timing with a timing light. The engine should be at proper idle rpm during adjustment.
 
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