Waterpump lube?
- Thread starter bigd1101
- Start date
bigd1101
Senior Member
Yes...I get that part. I had copious amounts of grease in the old radiator I am replacing. I'm wondering what "lube" in coolant additives and antifreeze do to a water pump that is basically lubed through the grease fittings on it? Modern automotive water pumps do not require any type of "extra" lubrication. In fact, if the coolant comes in contact with the bearing, the pump has failed.
Jim Brierley
Well-known member
Good question! I have no idea.
Jim/GA
Well-known member
On a modern water pump, "water pump lubricant and anti-rust" additive is lubricating the seal in the water pump that keeps the coolant out of the bearing. On better modern water pumps, this seal is ceramic. The bearing is sealed and lubricated for life.
The original Model A water pump design is different. The rear bushing is in contact with the coolant and the graphite packing seal is external to the bushing. I suppose some of the lubricant in the additive will contact the bushing, but it's not really enough to lubricate it for the load it's under. This additive is more useful in a Model A for the anti-rust.
A very slight injection of water pump grease into the rear water pump fitting lubricates the bushing, but you don't want too much. Very little. All other grease fittings on the car can get a couple of pumps of chassis grease with no harm (except for the throwout bearing fitting -- go easy on it, too).
HTH.
.
The original Model A water pump design is different. The rear bushing is in contact with the coolant and the graphite packing seal is external to the bushing. I suppose some of the lubricant in the additive will contact the bushing, but it's not really enough to lubricate it for the load it's under. This additive is more useful in a Model A for the anti-rust.
A very slight injection of water pump grease into the rear water pump fitting lubricates the bushing, but you don't want too much. Very little. All other grease fittings on the car can get a couple of pumps of chassis grease with no harm (except for the throwout bearing fitting -- go easy on it, too).
HTH.
.
Y-Blockhead
Well-known member
"Most" new throwout bearings I have seen are sealed, so what are you lubing anyway? The hub??
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Jim/GA
Well-known member
Yes. And if using an original style throw out bearing, some of that grease is worked up into the bearing. If using a sealed bearing then it does not.
Either way, a little goes a long way.
.
dumb person
Well-known member
Ceramic seals, or any seal for that matter.
Actually modern pumps require some kind of lube in the water, they don't like it when you run out & add plain water. Been there done that.
Actually modern pumps require some kind of lube in the water, they don't like it when you run out & add plain water. Been there done that.
Dick So. Cal.
Senior Member
I have been doing the following for years and never had a problem. . .
You know that drop of oil on the dipstick when you check the oil? Put it on the pump shaft at the front and rear of the water pump.
I check my oil regularly and do this each time.
Give it a try!
Dick
You know that drop of oil on the dipstick when you check the oil? Put it on the pump shaft at the front and rear of the water pump.
I check my oil regularly and do this each time.
Give it a try!
Dick
30 Closed Cab PU
Well-known member
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The subject of special water pump lubricants for the Model A, Model B and 1932 V8 engines is covered by Ford Service Bulletins for Sept-Oct 1932.
It is covered in more detail but I will quote a rather long sentence:
" The water pumps (both 4 cylinder and V8) were designed to use pressure gun lubricants which melt at temperatures below the temperatures reached by the water in the cooling system, and offer little resistance to the flow of the water should any find its way into the cooling system, whereas many of these special water pump lubricants have a melting point considerably higher than the maximum water temperature which permits such surplus, as is forced into the cooling system, to lodge in the radiator tubes and effectively blocking them.""
It is covered in more detail but I will quote a rather long sentence:
" The water pumps (both 4 cylinder and V8) were designed to use pressure gun lubricants which melt at temperatures below the temperatures reached by the water in the cooling system, and offer little resistance to the flow of the water should any find its way into the cooling system, whereas many of these special water pump lubricants have a melting point considerably higher than the maximum water temperature which permits such surplus, as is forced into the cooling system, to lodge in the radiator tubes and effectively blocking them.""
bigd1101
Senior Member
" The water pumps (both 4 cylinder and V8) were designed to use pressure gun lubricants which melt at temperatures below the temperatures reached by the water in the cooling system, and offer little resistance to the flow of the water should any find its way into the cooling system,"
Hmmmmm?? So.......is there a grease like this that exists? Like many have said, too much pumping in the back fitting on the old style pumps can lead to a plugged radiator, a problem I had from too much grease in the coolant by previous owners going a bit over with the grease gun.
If there is something like this mentioned above, where it "melts" if injected into the coolant system, why haven't I heard of it and why are we NOT using it???
Hmmmmm?? So.......is there a grease like this that exists? Like many have said, too much pumping in the back fitting on the old style pumps can lead to a plugged radiator, a problem I had from too much grease in the coolant by previous owners going a bit over with the grease gun.
If there is something like this mentioned above, where it "melts" if injected into the coolant system, why haven't I heard of it and why are we NOT using it???
The Ford Lubrication Chart of the era specifies that water pumps be lubricated by "pressure gun lubricant" which is the ordinary chassis lubricant of the era.
The question not answered today is if that 1930's data applies top todays chassis lubricants. Any expert out there?
My experience has been in my many years of Model A ownership I have always used chassis grease for the water pump, and have never had a radiator problem. Maybe I was right, maybe I was lucky, as I do not know the characteristic of todays chassis lubricant.
The question not answered today is if that 1930's data applies top todays chassis lubricants. Any expert out there?
My experience has been in my many years of Model A ownership I have always used chassis grease for the water pump, and have never had a radiator problem. Maybe I was right, maybe I was lucky, as I do not know the characteristic of todays chassis lubricant.
bigd1101
Senior Member
So...what IS this mystery "melting" grease for water pumps?? I understand that ANY over zealous greasing of the rear fitting will in fact end up in the cooling system and potentially plugging a good radiator. The mystery melting grease does not pose that problem according to the quote.
bigd1101
Senior Member
So, basically, there IS no such thing as grease that melts at say 170 to 190 degrees enough to be harmless to radiators. That's seems to be the consensus so far.
FRANK PKNY
Well-known member
CHANGE TO A NEW STYLE WATER PUMP WITH MODERN SEALS Use a good antifreeze year round . Then your problem is solved for good! JMHO
bigd1101
Senior Member
Too late......I have a new standard pump. I have been told that you can loosen the large brass packing nut when lubing to keep the grease from getting into the coolant.....as it will push out the loose nut area (path of least resistance).
Jim/GA
Well-known member
So...what IS this mystery "melting" grease for water pumps?? I understand that ANY over zealous greasing of the rear fitting will in fact end up in the cooling system and potentially plugging a good radiator. The mystery melting grease does not pose that problem according to the quote.
When I was a kid, my Dad kept a separate small grease gun filled with what he called "water pump grease" that we used on the rear fitting of the Model A water pump.
We also had a '41 Chrysler with a grease fitting on the water pump and we used that same little grease gun on it. The grease was a light, off-white color. He said it would not plug up the radiator, but to go easy on how much you used anyway.
We also had a larger grease gun filled with chassis grease that was used on all other grease fittings on all the cars (antique and modern). That grease was black (lots of graphite in it).
I have only found 2 water pump greases that are readily available today. One is called "Lubriplate No. 115" and the other is called "Penrite Water Pump Grease". Both are calcium-based greases. (I found reference to a 3rd grease, made by Castrol, but I can't find anyone that sells it today.)
The two water pump greases above are sold by "Restoration Supply Company" and can be found in their catalog at:
https://www.restorationstuff.com/catalog.html
I am sure that there are other suppliers of these products.
Penrite data sheet:
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/tech_pdfs_new/Grease_brochure.pdf
.
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