1956 fairlane engine knock and timing distributor

B

bfdinardo

Member
Hello all,
I have a 56 fairlane with the 292 and after it warms up or 15 minutes of running or so, it develops a "knock" at idle. I can't really tell where it's coming from. I spoke with a few folks who said that it's likely a timing issue with the distributor or points etc. I'm new to these set ups and am looking for some help.
1. does this distributor look like it's a correct 1956?
2. why is the outside vacuum line capped off and how does the car still run with it capped off?
3. is it because it's an aftermarket holley carb?
4. could incorrect timing cause a knock at low speeds when warm
5. does anyone know where I can find a good procedure to confirm timing and possibly replace the condensor, points, etc.?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Brian
 

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Ok, my old eyes might be deceiving me, but that sure doesn’t look like a teapot Holley. The dual diaphragm distributor will only work with the right 56 teapot Holley. So right off, you’ve got no timing control. If it’s hooked to ported vacuum on the carb, you’ve got full advance right off idle. Next question, is it “pinging” from the advance, or “knocking” from a rod or bearing problem.
 
bfdinardo said:
1. does this distributor look like it's a correct 1956?

2. why is the outside vacuum line capped off and how does the car still run with it capped off?

3. is it because it's an aftermarket holley carb?

4. could incorrect timing cause a knock at low speeds when warm

5. does anyone know where I can find a good procedure to confirm timing and possibly replace the condensor, points, etc.?
Click to expand...


1) Yes. It is a LOM Dual Diaphram.

2) Only the retard (full manifold vacuum) is blocked. The actual advance curve section of the advance unit is still functional.

3) Yes, but the distributor style will not operate correctly as the LOM signal is a mixture of manifold/ported vacuum signal to advance/retard the timing as determined by a SPARK CONTROL VALVE on the OEM CARB.

4) You need to install alter DUAL ADVANCE DISTRIBUTOR before going any further (IMO).

5) 1957 (and later) SHOP MANUAL (depending on style DIST chosen).


368398




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As others have mentioned, get a later (57 & up to 64) distributor before you do anything else.
 
Piston slap due to worn piston and cylinder wall is kind of a quiet knock. If a main or con rod bearing is going then there should be metal in the oil filter and the knock will get louder till something breaks. They generally knock whether it's idling or any rpm above. Piston slap may be less noticeable at higher rpm. Cam follower or lifter noise can also get louder under some conditions but it usually just a tapping sound.
 
Brian,

I live in Loveland, Ohio, just outside of Cincy a little bit off of 275. When I get back to town, I would love to come by to help out if needed. There are a great bunch of guys here on the forum as well.

you can see my posts by visiting the largest thread on this forum, or by going to www.hotrodreverend.com

Dan
 
To explain it in another way.....you have been cheated. Someone has replaced the original teapot 4bbl carb with a later model carb which will not work properly with your old Load-O-Matic distributor. To fix this, you need to get a 1957-1964 Y-block distributor. Those have mechanical and vacuum advance and should work well with the newer style carburetor.
 
Thanks for all of the feedback. I'd like to keep the newer Holley 4160 and will mate it with a 57-64 y block distributor as most of you have recommended. From my search, it seems like the go to distributor for the 57-64 y block is a Cardone 30‑2808 however many folks have warned about the lack of cores available thus leading to incorrect length of shafts or gear location etc. Is anyone aware of this issue? I'm thinking about ordering a handful of the 30-2808's from different places and hoping that at least 1 of them is correct and I'll return the rest.

I'll keep and attempt to rebuild the original distributor should I ever acquire an original teapot carb to go back to original set up.

HHR - I'd really appreciate your insight and can't believe you live so close! I'll PM you my contact info.
 
bfdinardo said:
From my search, it seems like the go to distributor for the 57-64 y block is a Cardone 30‑2808 however many folks have warned about the lack of cores available thus leading to incorrect length of shafts or gear location etc. Is anyone aware of this issue? I'm thinking about ordering a handful of the 30-2808's from different places and hoping that at least 1 of them is correct and I'll return the rest.
Click to expand...

Here is a brief description of the CARDONE rebuilt distributor -

Gear placement: 302 ford dimensions from bottom of distributor housing mounting flange to bottom of gear for all 289/302 distributors: 4.031"-4.038"

Gear placement: Y-BLOCK - from bottom of distributor housing mounting flange to bottom of gear for all y-block distributors: 4.991"-4.996"

This measurement can only be taken accurately with the distributor shaft pushed to the bottom and some type of straight edge clamped to the bottom of the distributor gear. Use a high quality digital caliper.

A 302 distributor (SBF) housing fits the Y-BLOCK without a problem, but the shaft is .958" too short. If an attempt is made, the gear will not fit tightly. The Y-BLOCK shaft can be used to replace the 302 shaft if it is in good shape. The gear must run on the pad in the block with .008"to .012" end play or it will not live very long.
Click to expand...



Stay away from CARDONE.

They are using SBF shafts in their Y-BLOCK rebuilt distributor and fail to acknowledge the resultant problems.

Using ported vacuum is correct on the 57/ distributor.
 
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KULTULZ, can you recommend any other part numbers or manufacturers? I'm having a hell of a time finding a non-HEI or non-electronic distributor for the 57-64 292 Y-blocks.
 
Hate to sound old fashioned, but if you don't have modifications to the engine for more power and don't need a larger carb, why not go back to the original style carb ? Just my thought.


Sal
 
I like the reliability of the newer Holley carb and mating to a newer distributor (with the potential that I'd add pentronix later) vs. buying a teapot carb and having to rebuild the LOM distributor that I have currently installed which is likely very old/worn. I'm hoping that the later distributor along with the newer holley carb will be more reliable and cost effective.
 
bfdinardo said:
KULTULZ, can you recommend any other part numbers or manufacturers?

I'm having a hell of a time finding a non-HEI or non-electronic distributor for the 57-64 292 Y-blocks.
Click to expand...

They are getting as rare as hen's teeth. People are finally beginning to understand LOAD-O-MATIC and wanting to upgrade (along with more modern carburation).

You will have to keep your eye out on EvilBay, trading sites and junk cars.

1957/62 PASS CAR - TO 1964 LT.

Don't forget BIRD, MERC and EDSEL.
 
bfdinardo said:
KULTULZ, can you recommend any other part numbers or manufacturers? I'm having a hell of a time finding a non-HEI or non-electronic distributor for the 57-64 292 Y-blocks.
Click to expand...

KULTULZ said:
They are getting as rare as hen's teeth. People are finally beginning to understand LOAD-O-MATIC and wanting to upgrade (along with more modern carburation).

You will have to keep your eye out on EvilBay, trading sites and junk cars.

1957/62 PASS CAR - TO 1964 LT.

Don't forget BIRD, MERC and EDSEL.
Click to expand...
bfdinardo - While you're looking around for another distributor, if you happen to come across a '57 T-Bird distributor sitting on a shelf somewhere, it will have a casting fitting to attach a Tach drive cable. photo #1
Not to be confused with the '55 or '56 Load-o-matic versions with the shallower upper housing. photo #2

If it's available at a really good price you can likely re-sell it for enough to buy 2 or 3 non-tach drive distributors.
 

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If it is an automatic, I have one more suggestion. Look at the torque converter bolts that connect it to the flex plate…They might be loose which will cause a "knock" at idle.
 
Sorry to jump in on your thread but it might help someone else also, but I’m wondering... I just got a motorcraft 12127 distributer to replace my 56 OEM distributer until I get the teapot referbed. From the flange down to the outer end of the gear it is 0.097 (minimum) too short. And there is also 1.050 of the shaft still past the gear.I thought I did the research on it before I bought it but seeing the numbers above,I wonder how well it will work. Thanks in advance


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Smoke.eater said:
Sorry to jump in on your thread but it might help someone else also, but I’m wondering... I just got a motorcraft 12127 distributer to replace my 56 OEM distributer until I get the teapot referbed. From the flange down to the outer end of the gear it is 0.097 (minimum) too short. And there is also 1.050 of the shaft still past the gear.I thought I did the research on it before I bought it but seeing the numbers above,I wonder how well it will work. Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
12127 is a base part number for a couple decades worth of distributors, on different types of engines.
The letter/number prefix and suffix on either side of the 12127 is what tells you what it is.
A "Motorcraft" labeled dist may be too new for a Y-block, depends on the numbers & measurements.

http://ford-y-block.com/distributors.htm
.

 

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That’s the only numbers that are cast into the dist. And that wasn’t a typo. From the bottom of the flange to the farthest edge of the gear is 4.908.


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