No Fire/spark on my 36 Flathead??

H

HS

Senior Member
I go out to the garage and try to start my 36 flathead engine today. Last time I started the engine was several weeks ago and it started up but now NO fire, Engine just spinds? (It has a good battery) I'm Not at all familiar with the V8 Distributor and coil mounted in front of the engine?( what an awful place to install the distributor! (my Model As. are lot easier than the V8 system) Where do I start looking to detect the problem and get the fire back?

Thanks.
H
 
Using a test light or a volt meter, check for voltage at the coil primary terminal that has the wire from the ballast resistor under the dash.

If no voltage at the coil, then check the back of the ignition switch for voltage in from the battery and voltage out to the ballast resistor. If no voltage out,then clean the contacts on the switch and put dielectric grass on them.

If you have voltage at the switch both in and out then check for voltage on both sides of the ballast resistor. If you have voltage in at the ballast resistor and no voltage out, then replace the ballast resistor.

If you have voltage out of the ballast resistor and no voltage at the coil, then the wire between the two is broken.

Assume that you have voltage at the coil, then replace the condenser, which will be evidenced by a very weak spark at the spark plugs and a no start.

I have driven a flathead into the garage, shut it off and on attempt to restart, no go. Strap soldered to the condenser had come off. Stuck small screw driven in the gap to establish a connection and car started. I soldered a ground wire to the condenser and grounded the wire under a coil mounting screw.

A dirty ignition switch will produce a no start. Had that happen.

Hope this helps.
 
Just remember when doing these type of test to only keep the ignition switch on for a minute or two at a time. If the point are closed and the ignition switch is left on damage can occur to the coil and/or points.
 
HS,
Your issue has been well covered but I'll add one little pita.........upon
occasion the points themselves can corrode slightly and this corrosion of course acts
like insulation. Usually the removal of the corrosion is accomplished by inserting a
piece of stiff paper between the closed sets of points and drawing it out......it's the
getting to the points that is the pita.
Charlie ny
 
HS....you mentioned "no fire". Did you mean it won't start or there is no spark?
If you have a good spark at the plugs, pour a LITTLE gas down the carb and try to start it again. It may be a fuel problem.
 
Yes No Spark !
Thank You all for a quick Reply!!! I will try to follow all your tips and let you know how it goes!! This Ford Barn is Great!!! Thanks Guys, Now I'm off to the garage !!

H
 
In most cases where the points get slightly corroded a shot of
starting fluid will fire it off. Once run for a few minutes the coat
is nocked off and full voltage is supplied to the coil. Shorting out
the resistor just to start it also helps. G.M.
 
HS said:
Yes No Spark !
Thank You all for a quick Reply!!! I will try to follow all your tips and let you know how it goes!! This Ford Barn is Great!!! Thanks Guys, Now I'm off to the garage !!

H
Click to expand...

All good trouble shooting info given....let us know what you actually find.
 
Some additional thoughts: Electrical connections MUST be clean and tight. Therefore, the terminals on the starter solenoid, starter, coil primary terminal, ballast resistor and the ignition switch need to be cleaned by removing the nuts and eye terminals and cleaning the contact surfaces with a file or sand paper and then tightening the terminal securely. Pay attention in reassembling the ballast resistor by first running a nut on each mounting stud, followed by the ballast resistor, an eye terminal on each stud and followed by a nut on each stud that is tightened. This way the resistor and eye terminals are squeezed by nuts on each side, which is not the case in stock form, which can result in an unintended voltage loss. Clean the battery connections and the ground cables as well. You will be surprised at the results.
 
Thank Bill and All who replied,

When you say "ballast resistor" is that the same as the Condenser? where is that?
is it on the coil?
what did you mean By? "Pay attention in reassembling the ballast resistor by first running a nut on each mounting stud, followed by the ballast resistor, an eye terminal on each stud and followed by a nut on each stud that is tightened"

Thank You,

HS
 
Ford mounted the wire wound ballast resistor on a small circuit board under the dash and not to far forward of the ignition switch under there. The condenser in mounted on the distributor assembly by the coil on top.

You may not have to remove the distributor much during your ownership of the car but it is not as bad a job as it might seem to be. The whole thing is a self contained unit that is not externally adjustable like the more conventional modern types. The two harness caps come right off the body by unsnapping the bales and there are only three bolts that hold the whole thing on. It only goes back on one way so you don't have to worry about getting it wrong. The cam drive slot is offset of center so it will only go on one way. Timing is only incrementally adjustable on the side of the unit when servicing the breaker points and the advance mechanism in there. The Ford service manuals give good instructions on service of the helmet type distributors used from 1932 thru 1941.

Here is a link to a U-tube video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7r7e-3sqtc
 
Last edited:
The distributor is only meant to go on one way, the tang that sticks
out the back is not in the middle it is offset slightly to one side.
Make sure when you replace it the tang lines up with the groove in
the front of the cam. You put 2 of the bolts in only turning the bolt
in about 3 turns. This will align the tang if it oriented properly. Now
push the distributor into the motor by hand, it should push all the
way in against the gear housing. DO NOT use the bolts to draw the
distributor in. If it don't push in by hand the tang is 180% out of
position. If pulled in by the bolts it will break one or more of the
three bolt mounting castings off and you will need to replace the
distributor. This has happened many times. If the distributor was
set up properly on a strobe machine before installing measure the
open gap of both sets of points. With a making pen write the gap
inside near both sets. Years later the points can be cleaned and set
to the original setting. The gap changes due to wear of the phenolic
ends that run on the cam. The points set on the machine are not set
by a feeler gauge, they are set by dwell as indicated on a meter. G.M.
 
Rotorwrench, BillOH and all.

OK, I checked 36 with a test light on the ignition switch wires, with a test light, got good bright light on both wires on the back of the Ignition switch.

I tested with my test light both wires on the Ballast Resistor,( Drivers side light was strong, Passenger side nut light lit-up but not as strong as drivers side nut

Tested wire going into the Coil while Ignition switch on, NO LIght??


Is there any other test for the Coil?
It looks like power is not going to the Coil from the ballast resistor/
OR ignition switch
Thanks, What can I check now,?

HS
 
Should have battery voltage, depending upon charge of battery before resistor.
The from resistor to coil, 3 to 4 volts again depending upon resistor in use.
It would appear no continuity in wire from resistor to coil, wire broken or grounded, or maybe faulty resistor. Care not to leave ignition switch on too long whilst checking.
I understand for a quick check you can run a test wire from battery to coil and then a start up test.
All the best.
Phil NZ
 
Rotowrench, BillOH and all Ford barners

Varroom/Varroom! The 36 Phaeton is running!

I re-read all the Posts
It appeared to me that the Wire from the Left side on the ballast Resistor was the dead wire going down to the coil nut, I took alligator clip wire and hooked it under the dash to he left side ballast Resistor and strung it all the way to the front of the engine at the coil nut.

Got back in the car, turned on the ignition switch, and pressed down on the starter, and all of a sudden Varroom/Varroom! the old 36 Phaeton started and is a purring like a kitten!!

OK Now any suggestions on how I might string a new piece of wire from the ballast resistor to the coil? I have to run the wire inside the large brown wire loom, back up under the dash from the Ballast Resistor??and then into the metal spark plug tubes
Thank You all, I learned a lot today! Thanks guys, Now to string a new replacement wire!

Thanks, HS
 
Be sure you know which side of the ballast resistor you are connecting to. The wrong side will give you a quick easy start, but will damage the coil and points if left that way. Just be sure that the wire from the ignition switch goes to one side of the ballast and the wire to the coil is connected to the other.
 
Bill OH said:
Some additional thoughts: Electrical connections MUST be clean and tight. Therefore, the terminals on the starter solenoid, starter, coil primary terminal, ballast resistor and the ignition switch need to be cleaned by removing the nuts and eye terminals and cleaning the contact surfaces with a file or sand paper and then tightening the terminal securely. Pay attention in reassembling the ballast resistor by first running a nut on each mounting stud, followed by the ballast resistor, an eye terminal on each stud and followed by a nut on each stud that is tightened. This way the resistor and eye terminals are squeezed by nuts on each side, which is not the case in stock form, which can result in an unintended voltage loss. Clean the battery connections and the ground cables as well. You will be surprised at the results.
Click to expand...

Nice Post Bill
My last "failure to proceed" was at the resistor nuts and the problem was exactly as you described - I got there eventually . The interesting thing is that as the resistor heats and cools the mounting studs and nuts expand and contract which effects connectivity. My car started again after it cooled -however only ran for a short time - I suspected condenser/coil but no improvement with change out to known good units . Back to the excellent procedure you described and I isolated the problem-Karl
 
Hi JSeery

Say again? Just be sure that the wire from the ignition switch goes to one side of the ballast and the wire to the coil is connected to the other.

OK so its the wire that goes to the from the Coil to the Ignition switch? Right?

HS
 
Hi JSeery,

Can someone tell me how connecting to the wrong side of the Ballast Resistor wrong side will give you a quick easy start, but will damage the coil and points if left that way.


which side do to connect the wire too? Just be sure that the wire from the ignition switch goes to one side of the ballast and the wire to the coil is connected to the other.

I might have hooked it up backwards yesterday?? but it sure started and ran good!

Thanks, HS
 
The ballast resistor restricts the currentflow to the coil.
If you connect the coil to the side coming from the ignition switch you get a higher then designed currentflow to the coil giving you a hot spark for starting but will overheat the coil.
So as you say ignition switch to one side of resistor and coil on the other side.
Doesn´t matter which way you connect it as long as the resistor is in there.
 
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