Rain gutters Help!

Daves55Sedan

Daves55Sedan

Well-known member
The old cars that have rain gutters eventually begin to rust as the permagum filler dries up, lifts off the surface and allows water to get underneath. You never know there is a problem until rust begins creeping upward on the top of the car and then it's too late. The rust is real bad by then.
I took a very long screwdriver and sharpened the edge to make a chisel out of it and used it to remove all the filler in the gutter.
One would like to think that a wire wheel would be excellent here for removing the rust in the gutter, but a normal wire wheel that fits in a drill is too wide to fit in the rain gutter. Then I looked at the little wire wheel attachments you can get for a Dremel tool, but the outside diameter is too small to reach down to the bottom of the gutter.
Anybody got any ideas how to effectively clean out the gutters???
 
I have used narrow twisted wire wheels before for this type of application but don't know the width of your gutter. The wheel was about 3/8" wide. Just a thought but I think you are right on. Good luck!!
 
I found a course wire wheel at Lowes that fit in the gutter, was stiff and gouged out the old sealer and cleaned the rust out. After the cleaning was done POR 15 was liberally applied and allowed to "soak" into the seams. I also remove the head liner and brush liberal amounts on the inside as well. After it cures I ruff up the finish with a course steal wool and shoot urethane primer then put the "new" two part sealer in it. Been solid for almost twenty years on a 67 Ranchero I painted for a friend.
 
Coupeman, you make me knock myself in the head for not thinking of this! I have seen these at the hardware store and I believe it would be narrow enough to fit!
FBB, I will go to Lowes to see if I can find it but I am skeptical that they are narrow enough. Beyond that, I have already removed all of the old dried up sealer and don't need anything for that. I just want something that will get me back down to bare shiny metal again.
You have the right idea using POR15, but I am just planning to spay a coat of self etching primer in the clean gutter and along the top where rust migrated up. There are a few pitted spots that I will gouge out to bare metal with dremel bit, then I am planning to fill in those little spots with JB-Weld, sand smooth, then ordinary grey primer over it. I am hoping it will last for 8 or 10 years to come.
NOW. What did you guys use to refill the bottom of the gutter. There needs to be something because there is actually a seam between two pieces of metal in the gutter that must be sealed or water will get in between them and start rusting again.
Any suggestions?
 
I was lucky that my sealer lifted out easily and had no rust under it. I used a braided wire wheel on an angle grinder to get the loose stuff out after the big pieces were gone. Those are fairly narrow and mine fit the width of the gutter.
 
harbor freight sells an assortment of wheels in a package they are pretty narrow as for a sealer 3m makes a great sealer self leveling only draw back is it requires a special gun also they have a heavy bodied sealer that will fill those pin holes also a bear metal sealer go to their web site I'm sure you will find something the gun can be bought on line doesn't need to be 3m product just a 2 component gun
 
frank long island said:
harbor freight sells an assortment of wheels in a package they are pretty narrow
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Beat ya to it. I have the exact set of wire-wheels that I got from harbor freight last year never opened yet and had forgotten about and it was in my box full of drill attachments, cut-off wheels & sanding discs. Sure enough some do fit and are big enough around that the mandrel clears the top edge of the gutter. Tried one out today and it works beautiful.
 
drip check will work but the new ureathane sealers are more flexible I would go with the self leveling or heavy bodied ck the 3m web site
 
For the seam sealer, I think I will stay away from trying the self-levelling type since the gutter slants downward near the back window and I don't want something in there sliding down inside the gutter and dripping down the back fender before it sets up.
I like the 3M drip chek as it is like a rubber paste, but it comes in a 5 oz tube. I would need dozens of them.
I have decided to use a tube of bathtub caulk. The seam where the top ends is very close to the outer edge of the gutter. You have to smash your face against the top and aim your eyes at the inside of the gutter to see it. I intend to do all the finishing work, primering and enamel overcoat prior to caulking. Then I will make the hole in the caulk gun tip very small and run it along that corner where the seam is and trowel the caulk in that corner with homemade cardboard trowels. Then I will try to apply a coat of grey primer over the caulk after it sets using a modelling brush, then mix a little batch of enamel and paint over it also with a modelling brush. I do not expect the paint to stick to the caulk very long, but you wont be able to see it anyway unless you are standing at the back of the car looking down the length of the inside of the gutter. But that bathtub caulk sticks real good to painted metal surfaces and should prevent water from seeping in at the seam.
I had thought about trying a caulk tube of flex-seal, but scared that it would be too runny and not sure how well it would stick or how long, whereas I KNOW that the bathtub caulk sticks for decades and still won't come off without force.
Thanx for all the great suggestions guys.
 
Problem with most bath tub caulks is they contain silicon. Paint will not stick to it no matter what. The 3M sealers available in all automotive paint suppliers are far superior to what we dig out of the gutters. The top of the line non-catalyzed sealers are sandable, work in easily and do not shrink after dried. Painting on top of them seals them up and gives you a "life long" finish. I would strongly recommend some kind of rust converter as the first step as the self etching primer will not kill any remaining rust in the seam between the spot welds. I like POR 15 as it will take paint after it is ruffed up but there are many other brands that will do the job.
 
as for your trowels you could also use an acid brush just trim it down you can run tape around the edge to prevent going to high into the roof just peel it off before it sets to hard
 
Ford blue blood said:
Paint will not stick to it no matter what.
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I knew that and wasn't much concerned since it is mostly hidden. The main objective here is going to be having a seal that will not absorb moisture and will stick to the seam real good. BUT, I think I have decided to look for 3M Fast-N-Firm if I can get it at a local auto parts store instead of bathtub caulk.

Ford blue blood said:
I would strongly recommend some kind of rust converter as the first step as the self etching primer will not kill any remaining rust in the seam between the spot welds.
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I agree best way would be to get a pint can of rust converter and brush it in the gutter with a little modelling brush, then grey primer over it, then sealer over that. BTW careful inspection shows that the seam is very tight all around, so regardless of which treatment is used here, it is not going to seep in between the stacked metal pieces much if any. It is the sealer that I hope will vastly slow the rust process (if there is any rust between the two pieces) AND prevent any further moisture encroachment.

I came upon a problem at the gutter near the back window where both layers of the bottom of the gutter rusted all the way thru and a large hole developed at the top there from rust migrating upward. It looked pretty bleak, and the fix was very complicated but is almost finished. This car should have finally been sent to the junkyard. You'll see why in a later post.
 
None of the hardware stores around carry 3M Fast-N-Firm caulk. I finally found it at O'Reilly Auto parts. They had it behind the counter (not out on the shelves). No wonder, the one tube of caulk costs $39.99. All the stops at the hardware store were not totally in vein as I did pick up a bottle of rust converter as I had planned.
Notice that the Fast-N-Firm cautions not to allow it to come in contact with bare metal (must be painted with overcoat prior to applying) which I had planned to do anyway, and also it warns not to apply directly over self-etching primer (which I had decided not to use in conjunction over the dried rust converter. So everything is on track to finish (apply rust converter, then grey automotive primer brushed on, then overcoat, then Fast-N-firm, then primer and paint over it again). Hope this lasts AND prevents rust from popping up again.
 
Daves55Sedan said:
This car should have finally been sent to the junkyard. You'll see why in a later post.
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Dave, I'll maybe comment when you show pictures of your issues..

So far during the restoration of my Vicky, I don't believe I have found a panel that hasn't required a rust repair. Since sandblasting I have found a bunch more issues. I have repaired rust all the way around the roof, then after blasting I suddenly discovered that it also has dents all over it. These were not visible prior to blasting.. A small pond made up of dents suddenly appeared in the middle.:(
But I'm to far into it to cut my losses, so marching forward.

LOL

Dave
 
Dave Covey said:
So far during the restoration of my Vicky, I don't believe I have found a panel that hasn't required a rust repair.
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Yea, but this ain't no Vicky, it's just a sedan (4dr no less). They have no value compared to the Vicky.

Dave Covey said:
I have repaired rust all the way around the roof, then after blasting I suddenly discovered that it also has dents all over it.
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Interesting story; an old fella I know had a '53 Silver anniversary issue Vicky 2-dr hardtop with all the bells & whistles (he bought new from the dealer in '53). At some point way back in time, he had a little bit too much of the sauce one night and rolled it over in a ditch. The insurance company paid to fix the car. He got it back good as new and drove it several more years. Can you imagine the damage (dents, broken glass, bent rain gutter, trim pieces smashed, etc). Insurance today would just total the car and it would go to scrap.

Dave Covey said:
But I'm to far into it to cut my losses, so marching forward.
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That's exactly how I felt by the time I discovered this latest debaucle.
 
The photo below shows the hole cutout in the top near the back window and rust damage to structure beyond.
Tophole1.JPG

The photo below shows the structural repair patch with holes punched for welding to the remaining good structure. Additional spot welding to attach it at the top to the undamaged structure was also done.
Toppatch1.JPG

The photo below shows 3 new metal tabs placed behind the hole and protruding out into the open space to be used as a backer plate for holding the new outer patch panel. The tabs were welded onto the top at the edge of the hole, then the welds ground smooth so that the outer patch panel will lay flush with the existing top surface.
Toppatch2.JPG

The photo below shows the new outer top patch panel layed onto the tabs and is temporarily held on with a magnet ready for welding. The bottom of the outer patch piece is bent inward and cut to fit so that it stops against the new structural patch piece underneath. Perfect fit. Hot dog!
Toppatch3.JPG

Tried to get a photo of the portion of gutter that was rusted away at the bottom, but camera won't take good photo that close up. Anyway, I cut a flat piece to fit the hole and welded it in place. A few very small spots need to be filled with JB-Weld and it will be good as new. Lord help me!
 
BTW, if you wanna see the identifying notation text on the actual photos, I think you can just pick the photo with your mouse and the photo will enlarge for you so you can read the text.
 
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