'40 steering problem revisited

36tudordeluxe

36tudordeluxe

Well-known member
In earlier post described how I can't keep steering wheel centered and have the car go straight down the road. No slop in the kingpins and when I grab the pitman arm with my hand with drag link disconnected there's no slop in the arm and sector shaft. When I rock the tire back and forth with the drag link connected I get about an 1/8" of slop. Am wondering if tie rod end in photo is a non-Ford tie rod end. There is only about .045" of taper to it and maybe that explains why it won't go into the end of the pitman arm very far; I've checked and the arm isn't installed upside down. Anyway have ordered new tie rod end. There's 13/16" of gap from top of the pitman arm to the bottom of the box. I know this is too big of a gap. Have checked to see if the pitman arm is square to the sector shaft and it is, in previous photos it looked crooked. Is there a specific torque setting for the nut on sector shaft or a ball park figure?
Thanks for the help guys.
 

Attachments

  • dragtie.jpg
    dragtie.jpg
    23.1 KB · Views: 119
Have you checked the groves in the pitman arm and the sector shaft to see if there is any indication why it will not pull down further?
 
Whats the big deal with a 40 gear box.
The 36 to48 steering boxs are all the same.
The 36 has a worm of 17 to 1 ratio ,later was changed to 20 to 1.
The 36 would make about 90 degs swing,the 40s box 37 to48 new worm change made it eaiser to steer,and quicker.
Now the biggest problem with the engine swap is the oil pan.
What you have is the wrong pitman arm.If filed all the splins off it still wouldn,t go on all the way.
Both the tapers should be the same way.
Now some jack the engine up 2 to 3" and some bend the pitman arm.
What you could do is get the correct pitman arm and cut in half and weild the other up side down.
First it would go on all the way, and the nut would be up top like you are tying to do.
Also the 36 has a drag link straight no bends .
 
Another piece of info. is when I put the front end up on jack stands and centered the steering wheel the tires were pointing exactly straight ahead. Makes me think the problem is something other than the box or pitman arm. Should have the new drag link end in a day or two.
 
George/Maine said:
Whats the big deal with a 40 gear box.
The 36 to48 steering boxs are all the same.

I beg to differ, the '36-steering gear boxes are completely different from the '37 -40 boxes, worm sector, compared to worm roller. The '41-48's are similar to the '40 and earlier except for the steering shaft differences.
The ratio differences between the early and later 41-48 might be of some importance, however, not a big deal when considering a swap for easier driving.
I converted my '36 to '40 steering gears, frame mount and a '40 pitman arm, part #21A 3590, with a '40 column jacket in 1955. I used a '40 column because my car has had a column shift since '52..
My front axle is a '41 with a 2" drop... The whole assembly has never given me any problems.
Click to expand...
 
Re-reading the comment in #5 by 36tudor made me wonder, could the rear axle be out of alignment?.. I had a problem with a steering wheel that was off center then the vehicle was being driven. Happened to be following the vehicle one day and noted that it was "crabbing" down the road. I checked the vehicle over, finding that the Ford garage had reversed one of the rear springs, one end of the rear springs was shorter by over and inch. The vehicle had been in the Ford garage for a repair to the rear end several months earlier.
I also had a similar problem with a '49 Olds 88 that I had a Fatman front clip put in. The man that did the work had checked the frame for parallel, but not for square. The original chassis was 3/4" out of square, which meant the new front clip was out of square with the chassis.
 
blucar said:
George/Maine said:
Whats the big deal with a 40 gear box.
The 36 to48 steering boxs are all the same.

I beg to differ, the '36-steering gear boxes are completely different from the '37 -40 boxes, worm sector, compared to worm roller. The '41-48's are similar to the '40 and earlier except for the steering shaft differences.
The ratio differences between the early and later 41-48 might be of some importance, however, not a big deal when considering a swap for easier driving.
I converted my '36 to '40 steering gears, frame mount and a '40 pitman arm, part #21A 3590, with a '40 column jacket in 1955. I used a '40 column because my car has had a column shift since '52..
My front axle is a '41 with a 2" drop... The whole assembly has never given me any problems.
Click to expand...

What I was doing was trying to prove that his car still has the 36 box and turns more. He says it turns 4 turns or more. By turning more puts lot of strain on pitman arm and being a make shift pitman is moving.
360 degs divided 17= 21.1times4.250 turns=90 degs.
The 36 has the same part number for the sector and pitman arm,36 only 17to1 worm. Drag link will not starch but may bend in other direction.
I think the correct pitman arm will fix the problem, but now may have pan clearance problems.
Click to expand...
 
George/Maine said:
blucar said:
The 36 has the same part number for the sector and pitman arm, 36 only 17 to1 worm.
Click to expand...

I'm not following any of this, but the sector is completely different between a 36 and a later steering box. That is the point of the swap! I have never heard of attempting to swap the sector shaft out in a 36 box. What is used is the whole steering box from a later model, in this case a 40 box. The only part of the original that is remaining is the pitman arm.
Click to expand...
 

Attachments

  • th.jpg
    th.jpg
    10.3 KB · Views: 21
  • 291592036338_1.jpg
    291592036338_1.jpg
    20.5 KB · Views: 29
The one on the right looks like the 36 thur 48.
Steering Worm Gear Without Shaft - 17 To 1 Ratio - Ford Passenger Part # 32-16761-1 Mac auto
Steering fix for '40 box check here for more info. 7-27-17 post 22
What I think is the car still has 36 box 17 to1 worm.
I base my info is the 47 that I rebuilt 2 years ago and had a 3 1/2 turns lock to lock.
I not sure but think the pitman arm is the same 36 to 48?
I do not like his pitman arm and 2 years later still has the same problem.
That a good way to find a barn find years later could not be fixed.
Wrong PITMAN ARM.
 
blucar said:
Re-reading the comment in #5 by 36tudor made me wonder, could the rear axle be out of alignment?.. I had a problem with a steering wheel that was off center then the vehicle was being driven. Happened to be following the vehicle one day and noted that it was "crabbing" down the road. I checked the vehicle over, finding that the Ford garage had reversed one of the rear springs, one end of the rear springs was shorter by over and inch. The vehicle had been in the Ford garage for a repair to the rear end several months earlier.
I also had a similar problem with a '49 Olds 88 that I had a Fatman front clip put in. The man that did the work had checked the frame for parallel, but not for square. The original chassis was 3/4" out of square, which meant the new front clip was out of square with the chassis.
Click to expand...
When I took in for alignment they also checked rear axle and it was good.
 
can you post pics of the splines in your pitman arm off the steering box and a picture of the splines on your steering box without the arm on it? I don't believe your pitman arm is going onto the splines on your box enough, something isn't right and you need to figure out why it wont go on. ive just put my steering box back on and the pitman arm slides right onto the splines with only a small amount of pressure, when I say the pitman arms goes right onto the box I mean to the top of the splines so the nut goes on fully.
 
Last edited:
Am now beginning to suspect worn worm gear or improper shim adjustment of the worm and sector. I was never able to feel the "bump" when turning the steering wheel through the center position. Is it because I have too many shims or worm just worn out? Could either of these conditions prevent the steering wheel from staying in the centered position when driving straight down the road?
 
weemark said:
can you post pics of the splines in your pitman arm off the steering box and a picture of the splines on your steering box without the arm on it? I don't believe your pitman arm is going onto the splines on your box enough, something isn't right and you need to figure out why it wont go on. ive just put my steering box back on and the pitman arm slides right onto the splines with only a small amount of pressure, when I say the pitman arms goes right onto the box I mean to the top of the splines so the nut goes on fully.
Click to expand...
Check post #3, I agree it looks like the pitman arm should go further on to the sector shaft, used 1/2" ratchet and gave it everything I have but that's as far as I could go. I think I could get a little more if I put a longer pipe over the ratchet handle and crank.
 
36tudordeluxe said:
Check post #3, I agree it looks like the pitman arm should go further on to the sector shaft, used 1/2" ratchet and gave it everything I have but that's as far as I could go. I think I could get a little more if I put a longer pipe over the ratchet handle and crank.
Click to expand...

you shouldn't have to pull that hard on a ratchet to get it onto the splines, something is up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top