Steering fix for '40 box?
- Thread starter 36tudordeluxe
- Start date
36tudordeluxe
Well-known member
I was thinking the pitman arm should be further on sector shaft and tie rod end should be further in the pitman arm.
Went for test drive and was close to having steering wheel centered, was at the 12 after 9 position rather than the desired 9:15 position; I could live with that.
Stopped and filled up the tank, made a tight left u-turn and steering wheel went to the 6 0'clock position for straight ahead! Thought if I made tight right u-turn it would go back to the 12 after 9 position..........and it did. New kingpins and bushings, tie rod secure and correct toe-in. What's going on here???
Here's a couple pictures. Wonder if tie rod end going into pitman arm is a non Ford item
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JSeery
Member Emeritus
The pitman arm is not on correct at all! Not near far enough on. If you filed the flat spots they may not be filed deep enough. Also are you sure you have the taper on the correct way?
I would also replace the tie rod end. This type of stuff is why I'm not in favor of just trying to patch things up instead of finding the real cause. This is the type of thing that could lead to the loss of the whole car!
I would also replace the tie rod end. This type of stuff is why I'm not in favor of just trying to patch things up instead of finding the real cause. This is the type of thing that could lead to the loss of the whole car!
FlatheadTed
Well-known member
I see you have a adjustable drag link so just lengthen or shorten that ,with wheels straight ahead that should re clock the S wheel ,Ted
36tudordeluxe
Well-known member
Thanks for the help JSeery, am going to order new tie rod end and also see if I can get pitman arm further on the sector shaft. I have 4 3/8 turns lock to lock and 2 3/16 turns off center either direction.
Mart
Well-known member
It does swivel in the drag link but is held straight up by the pitman arm. It is tight in the taper, isn't it?
Already stated above, best way is to remove one end of the drag link. Get wheels straight. Get steering box centered, adjust drag link until it just slips in place.
Do this with the weight of the vehicle on the axles. In other words with stands under the axles, not the frame.
An alternative way, would be to drive down a straight road, and put a chalk or tape mark at the top of the steering wheel.
Then put the car on a ramp and put the chalk mark at the top. Adjust the drag link until the spokes on the steering wheel get to where you want them. (the chalk mark will go off to one side.) This relies on the wheels not turning.
This is how they used to do the Minis at Longbridge, except they used to pull the wheel off the fine splines and refit it as close to straight as they could.
Mart.
Already stated above, best way is to remove one end of the drag link. Get wheels straight. Get steering box centered, adjust drag link until it just slips in place.
Do this with the weight of the vehicle on the axles. In other words with stands under the axles, not the frame.
An alternative way, would be to drive down a straight road, and put a chalk or tape mark at the top of the steering wheel.
Then put the car on a ramp and put the chalk mark at the top. Adjust the drag link until the spokes on the steering wheel get to where you want them. (the chalk mark will go off to one side.) This relies on the wheels not turning.
This is how they used to do the Minis at Longbridge, except they used to pull the wheel off the fine splines and refit it as close to straight as they could.
Mart.
JSeery
Member Emeritus
I'm a little shocked that people keep advising to just adjust the drag link when we are dealing with parts that are not fitted properly and constitute a potentially dangerous situation. If the parts are not fitting together and moving around while driving why would anyone say just adjust it!!!
"made a tight left u-turn and steering wheel went to the 6 0'clock position for straight ahead! Thought if I made tight right u-turn it would go back to the 12 after 9 position..........and it did. New kingpins and bushings, tie rod secure and correct toe-in. What's going on here???"
The pitman arm is nowhere near on far enough. Look at the castle part of the nut. Hard to tell from the photo, but doesn't even look like the pitman arm is square with the sector shaft. This looks to me like the flat spots in the pitman arm were not filed down far enough and they are not allowing the pitman arm to line up correctly with the sector splines.
"made a tight left u-turn and steering wheel went to the 6 0'clock position for straight ahead! Thought if I made tight right u-turn it would go back to the 12 after 9 position..........and it did. New kingpins and bushings, tie rod secure and correct toe-in. What's going on here???"
The pitman arm is nowhere near on far enough. Look at the castle part of the nut. Hard to tell from the photo, but doesn't even look like the pitman arm is square with the sector shaft. This looks to me like the flat spots in the pitman arm were not filed down far enough and they are not allowing the pitman arm to line up correctly with the sector splines.
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George/Maine
Well-known member
If you have over 4 turns you could have 36 parts. With the car up no weight should be 3 1/2 turns 37 to 48. Also the pitman arm should be 6 1/2 to 7" mine was bent because of truck oil pan 53 8ba or 8rt. I see 40 boxes on ebay used or rebuilt.
Check the pitman arm nut on my 47 the arm should go over with no filing.
A 40 box doesn't care if its on a 36 chassis but must have 40 parts 37 to 48
Check the pitman arm nut on my 47 the arm should go over with no filing.
A 40 box doesn't care if its on a 36 chassis but must have 40 parts 37 to 48
JSeery
Member Emeritus
Check the pitman arm nut on my 47 the arm should go over with no filing.
The filing is required if the pitman arm is clocked to a different position than the original setup. A "V" file is used and it takes a little time to get it right. I file them until tell it looks close and then trial fit it onto the sector shaft. It normally takes a lot of trial fitting and filing to get it correct. Not a hard job, just takes time to get a proper fit.
You can see in George/Maine's photo how the pitman arm should fit on the sector.
If you look close you can see the filed area in this pitman arm. If you are using the original clocking none of this is required.
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rotorwrench
Well-known member
The rod end taper sure doesn't look like it goes very far into that arm taper socket. The pitman arm doesn't fit very far onto the sector shaft splines either. They usually go on till they bottom out. This way they don't get loose on the splines. If it can move around on the splines, it will eventually get loose & start flopping around on there. If you just don't have them tightened up all the way the disregard this observation.
George/Maine
Well-known member
There are few things to check before you do anything.
Car on ground how much free play do you have,should be NO more then 2"
If that is good how many turn lock to lock 3 1/2 is good less then 4 .
if good put the correct pitman arm on.
Now if 4 you have wrong parts.
My guess you want to keep the tube with key lock and what ever.
Using 40 box you want the shaft to be the same lenght thats in car.
You may be better to reuse your steering shaft. Note if you reused your worm from 36 that could be your problem.
Note there are marks on worm and shaft. This is were the keyway for steering wheel goes wrong.
You may be better to use 37 38 39 whole unit seeing you have floor shift.
Car on ground how much free play do you have,should be NO more then 2"
If that is good how many turn lock to lock 3 1/2 is good less then 4 .
if good put the correct pitman arm on.
Now if 4 you have wrong parts.
My guess you want to keep the tube with key lock and what ever.
Using 40 box you want the shaft to be the same lenght thats in car.
You may be better to reuse your steering shaft. Note if you reused your worm from 36 that could be your problem.
Note there are marks on worm and shaft. This is were the keyway for steering wheel goes wrong.
You may be better to use 37 38 39 whole unit seeing you have floor shift.
36tudordeluxe
Well-known member
Thanks everyone for the advice. Have fallen behind due to sick dog and condensation pan in attic for AC unit developing a leak; should be back on task in a day or two. After looking at George's example I can see I'm nowhere close to where pitman arm should be on sector shaft nor is the tie rod end in far enough in drag link. At 150lb. torque should the pitman arm be where it should be? Although these pieces don't appear to be installed as they should be but still very secure, I still don't see why I'm having this problem.
36tudordeluxe
Well-known member
That's exactly what I have.
36tudordeluxe
Well-known member
JSeery, the pitman arm currently using is a stock '36 that hasn't been filed. Great observation on pitman arm being perpendicular to sector shaft; I thought that was the case too but chalked it up to my imagination. What would prevent the arm from not going on square? My first instinct would be to think I installed the arm upside down but double checked when installing. Will go back and check again.
George/Maine
Well-known member
I asked if you have more then 4 turns on steering wheel. The only way you get that is the worm being wrong part. I guess the 36 had more turns so they shorten the pitman arm.
The sector shaft will only turn so far, what ever it is connected to." 3 1/2 turns is correct "
So my guess is the worm is wrong part 36, and you need a 37 48 pitman arm.
Another thing pitman arm is tapered so goes on one way.
The sector shaft will only turn so far, what ever it is connected to." 3 1/2 turns is correct "
So my guess is the worm is wrong part 36, and you need a 37 48 pitman arm.
Another thing pitman arm is tapered so goes on one way.
PeteVS
Well-known member
Pardon me for not having read ALL of the previous responses, but here's what I've done:
1- With the steering disconnected, turn the steering wheel all the way to the left and put a piece of tape at the top of the wheel and mark it "L."
2- Counting turns of the wheel, turn it all the way to the right and put another piece of tape marked "R" at the top of the wheel.
3- Move the wheel half way back towards the left EXACTLY half the number of turns of what you counted going from full left to full right. Put another piece of tape marked "C" at the top of the wheel. The wheel SHOULD be positioned where you want it to be when you're driving straight ahead.
4- Mount the pitman arm to the sector shaft so that it's positioned dead straight ahead (?). If necessary, file out the three wide "indexing" splines to allow it to be mounted in that position.
5- Adjust the drag link so that the wheels are pointed straight ahead.
6- Test drive. If necessary, adjust the drag link length to make final adjustment for straight ahead driving.
1- With the steering disconnected, turn the steering wheel all the way to the left and put a piece of tape at the top of the wheel and mark it "L."
2- Counting turns of the wheel, turn it all the way to the right and put another piece of tape marked "R" at the top of the wheel.
3- Move the wheel half way back towards the left EXACTLY half the number of turns of what you counted going from full left to full right. Put another piece of tape marked "C" at the top of the wheel. The wheel SHOULD be positioned where you want it to be when you're driving straight ahead.
4- Mount the pitman arm to the sector shaft so that it's positioned dead straight ahead (?). If necessary, file out the three wide "indexing" splines to allow it to be mounted in that position.
5- Adjust the drag link so that the wheels are pointed straight ahead.
6- Test drive. If necessary, adjust the drag link length to make final adjustment for straight ahead driving.