Steering fix for '40 box?

36tudordeluxe

Well-known member
Have a '40 box in my '36, with wheels, steering wheel and pitman arm centered the steering wheel has to be held at about the 10 to 4 position to go straight down the road. With the front end off the ground and the steering wheel in the 10 to 4 position, would the fix be to turn the adjusting sleeve on the
drag link to move steering wheel to the 15 to 3 position?
 
Yes. Make sure the wheel is centered and adjust drag link so the wheels are straight ahead.
 
Yes. Make sure the wheel is centered and adjust drag link so the wheels are straight ahead.
Jseery, I've done what you suggest and the result is I have to turn the steering wheel to the 10 to 4 position to go straight down the road; my question is, if I adjust the steering with the wheels slightly to the right and the steering wheel at approximately the 10 to 4 position to the 15 to 3 (horizontal position) would the car now go straight with the steering wheel in the correct position?
 
If that is happening, something is wrong! You need to figure out where the problem is. Really need to get at the root of what is going on. They didn't come from the factory like that, so something is not right. Need to be sure the steering box is centered, it makes a difference, the box is set tighter at the center position. Go through everything from square one and see what the real issue is. Is the axle out of square with the frame? Is the axle bent? Need to start with checking all the basic geometry, the wish bone, the center ball mount, etc.
 
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I am not familiar with 36 linkage. Is there an adjusting sleeve in the rod from the box to the spindle? If so, you need to make that rod shorter to center the wheel.
 
Back to basics - When your wheels are straight ahead and the front end is off the ground, do you have the same number of turns (from center), in both the left & right direction?
 
Have a '40 box in my '36, with wheels, steering wheel and pitman arm centered the steering wheel has to be held at about the 10 to 4 position to go straight down the road. With the front end off the ground and the steering wheel in the 10 to 4 position, would the fix be to turn the adjusting sleeve on the
drag link to move steering wheel to the 15 to 3 position?

Back to your original question, yes that should work, but I would still want to know why it is happening in the first place.
 
It sounds like there might be some conflict with placement and/or length of parts. The 1936 was cross steer but used pitman arms & tie rods to work with the old solid tooth type Gemmer steering gear. The roller sector type Gemmer II design may need different lengths or something to get it to work with the 1936 cars.
 
Back to basics - When your wheels are straight ahead and the front end is off the ground, do you have the same number of turns (from center), in both the left & right direction?
The car has a dropped axle, reversed eyes and split wishbone from CE. I get 2 1/8 turns from center in either direction.
 
Back to your original question, yes that should work, but I would still want to know why it is happening in the first place.
I rebuilt the '40 box completely and maybe the "pre-load" isn't spot on but am told that wouldn't have anything to do with the car going straight down the road. When I had the stock front end, car drove straight but difficult to turn as compared to the '40 setup. Anyway, was hoping someone would confirm my plan of attack as you just did. Will proceed and see what happens.
 
Have a '40 box in my '36, with wheels, steering wheel and pitman arm centered the steering wheel has to be held at about the 10 to 4 position to go straight down the road. With the front end off the ground and the steering wheel in the 10 to 4 position, would the fix be to turn the adjusting sleeve on the
drag link to move steering wheel to the 15 to 3 position?

Hmmmmmmm............This ol' problem AGAIN! OK, if I understand your "10 to 4 position" to mean slightly to the right of center, I MAY have the mechanical reason for you, IF you used the '40 PITMAN arm. Refer to the pic below.

323745


The Pitman arm on top is a '36, and the bottom one is a '40. If you look closely, the center to center distance between holes is greater on the '40 arm. Since the drag link (when viewed from above) tends to form a triangle shape of sorts by angling rearward, away from the tie rod at it's extreme left end (where it attaches to the Pitman arm), some strange geometry comes into play if you change Pitman arms (lengths). The '40 arm would place the left end of the Pitman arm closer to the tie rod ('cuz it's longer)...WITH THE STEERING BOX CENTERED. Using Pythagorean's theorem as a guideline to illustrate the dynamics of a RIGHT TRIANGLE (consider the tie rod and Pitman arm as the two shortest sides forming a right triangle), what's really happening with the '40 drag link is an example of the need to DECREASE the length of the hypotenuse. Your drag link is the hypotenuse in this theoretical right triangle. SOooooo..........if you did not initially adjust (SHORTEN) the length of your drag link after the '40 Pitman arm substitution, the "too-long" drag link (with the steering wheel straight ahead) will **** the wheels ever so slightly to the LEFT.........hence, your having to ever so slightly hold the steering wheel to the right......to go straight down the road! There ya have it in an otherwise perfect world. Yes, no? That's what happens when us damn hot rodders go screwin' with Henry's infinite wisdom. DD
 
Hmmmmmmm............This ol' problem AGAIN! OK, if I understand your "10 to 4 position" to mean slightly to the right of center, I MAY have the mechanical reason for you, IF you used the '40 PITMAN arm. Refer to the pic below.

323745


The Pitman arm on top is a '36, and the bottom one is a '40. If you look closely, the center to center distance between holes is greater on the '40 arm. Since the drag link (when viewed from above) tends to form a triangle shape of sorts by angling rearward, away from the tie rod at it's extreme left end (where it attaches to the Pitman arm), some strange geometry comes into play if you change Pitman arms (lengths). The '40 arm would place the left end of the Pitman arm closer to the tie rod ('cuz it's longer)...WITH THE STEERING BOX CENTERED. Using Pythagorean's theorem as a guideline to illustrate the dynamics of a RIGHT TRIANGLE (consider the tie rod and Pitman arm as the two shortest sides forming a right triangle), what's really happening with the '40 drag link is an example of the need to DECREASE the length of the hypotenuse. Your drag link is the hypotenuse in this theoretical right triangle. SOooooo..........if you did not initially adjust (SHORTEN) the length of your drag link after the '40 Pitman arm substitution, the "too-long" drag link (with the steering wheel straight ahead) will **** the wheels ever so slightly to the LEFT.........hence, your having to ever so slightly hold the steering wheel to the right......to go straight down the road! There ya have it in an otherwise perfect world. Yes, no? That's what happens when us damn hot rodders go screwin' with Henry's infinite wisdom. DD
DD, you just took me back in time to my high school geometry class and that's going way way back!
That was some great "figuring" but am using the '36 pitman arm which I should have stated at the beginning I suppose.
 
You could maybe cut the teeth on the spline and clock the arm left or right ,or re key the steering wheel ,Ted
Ted, I have 2 '36 pitman arms, one of which I filled so there are no index grooves and would allow me to clock it in any position on the sector shaft but never could get it to improve the problem.

Tomorrow before it gets to hot in the garage going to put the car up on stands and adjust from the 10 to 4 position to where the steering wheel is horizontal and then road test.
 
I have the same problem just drive it. Ted has the right idea post 12#
When the worm was put on shaft it may not have been lined up with the steering wheel keyway. Put new key way on steering wheel.
 
Grasping at straws here, but if the tapered stud on tie rod end swivels on the drag link how would the steering stay centered?
 
Grasping at straws here, but if the tapered stud on tie rod end swivels on the drag link how would the steering stay centered?
Lost me on that one, not sure what you are referring to. It has to turn in a circular fashion. If it is rotating/moving in any other why it needs to be replaced.

If your talking about adjusting it by turning the threads to lengthen or shorten the drag link, the idea is to keep the steering wheel where you want it and the wheels straight ahead and adjust it to fit in the steering arm on the spindle.
 
If you have 2 1/8 turn center to center, your pitman arm is( shorter).
Thats a mix of parts. Its 3 1/2 lock to lock. to be correct.
Most important is get 1 1/2 turns min each side. for total of 3 1/2 turns.
Now get a piece of cardboard and place over steering wheel.
Now adgust the drag link to put ft wheel straight.
I did my 47 two years ago and you are still playing with yours.
Get another box that no one has messed it up.
You could have had a nove clip or mii by now.
 
Lost me on that one, not sure what you are referring to. It has to turn in a circular fashion. If it is rotating/moving in any other why it needs to be replaced.

If your talking about adjusting it by turning the threads to lengthen or shorten the drag link, the idea is to keep the steering wheel where you want it and the wheels straight ahead and adjust it to fit in the steering arm on the spindle.
Yeah, I could have done a better job describing the situation. Should have said "where drag link tie rod end goes into pitman arm." Here's a picture.
 

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If anything is loose there, that is a problem. There should be no movement except the normal ball pivot.
 
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