60 miles per hour all day long

My '28 Phaeton, with its stock factory engine, light body, large 21" tires, high-speed rearend, etc. has no difficulty cruising along at 60 mph. And it can do it all day long, comfortably. But as has been mentioned, there are a number of mitigating circumstances that cause that not to happen.

Primarily for me, is the fact that my car's high-speed endurance time is hampered by my bladder.

In 1963, On the long stretches of flat, straight road across the desert between Santa Fe, NM and Bakersfield, Calif., my '28 Phaeton hummed along quite comfortably at 60 mph. However, I never lasted more than 2 or 3 hours before a stop of some sort caused the 60 mph to come to a halt. Food, Gas, leg stretch,etc.; but mainly, to look for a tree to hide behind while I 'relieved' myself.

Once stopped, I did take the time to give the car a 'once over' to assess it's continued suitability to continue on at 60 mph. The car was/in quite capable of going faster, but for my car the 'sweet spot' is between 55 and 60 mph.

The only thing that keeps me from driving at that sustained speed today, is (now that I am old) cautionary prudence. Any vehicle traveling at 60 mph is a flying missile, whose abrupt stop (like against another car, a tree, etc.) can easily cause a great deal of havoc. And I no longer care for the adrenaline "rush".
 
As far as speedo's are concerned. I should have mentioned it before. Most are inaccurate. Mine reads 40 and the GPS says 45, 50 mph and the GPS says 57.
Like most folks I stick with 40-45. The car likes it and so do I.
 
It is very important to understand.

While we can and do run the A's for sustained 55 to 60 MPH without second thought, quite frankly we are mostly on back roads going to shows running 45 to 50.

It is an important benchmark to understand your cars condition. If it feels like the car does not want to or like to run at those speeds then there is something wrong with your car.
I like to point this out because the vast majority of cars I see in my area are not what I consider safe to run 45 MPH.

The reality is a car that runs 60 MPH comfortably is a very confident, easy driving car at ANY speed. You do not feel like it will behave bad at anytime. It tracks down the road nice regardless of pothole conditions. It accelerates well and it stops with confidence.

Driving cars that are not done very well is a nightmare. No shocks, sloppy steering, marginal braking make for cars that just do not behave well at ANY speed!

Being able to run 60 MPH for extended periods of time is a benchmark for the overall condition of the car. We have let other A people drive our cars and they walk away in amazement at how bad their cars drive. It usually is an expensive drive cause it can take a lot of $$$$ to make a great driving factory like A and once you know what it can do you got to have it.
 
Beware, These cars are almost 90 years old. It is nice to speculate what they performed like when new. But, don't push them, or you may wind up pushing them all the way home and looking for a replacement engine. My 1933 model B easily wants to cruise at 50 mph, but I feel safer driving at around 40. Maybe I am just scared.
 
My car is all stock, happy at around 45 mph or so, maybe 50. I would never push it to 60. How fast does everone drive your cars when out for a cruise?
 
1928Mik said:
My car is all stock, happy at around 45 mph or so, maybe 50. I would never push it to 60. How fast does everone drive your cars when out for a cruise?
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I'm also comfortable at 45 to 50. I've not seen 60 yet on the speedometer. Radiator, engine, transmission, suspension, steering, brakes and tires all new or rebuilt in the last two years.

I suppose it would do 60.....no need though..
 
IN my forty years of experience I can tell you that 60 miles an hour driving at interstate speeds will require a babbitt job after 20,000 miles. Been there and done that a few times.
 
FWIW: Model A Highway Speed.

I think one of the main differences in one's comfortable Model A highway speeds has to do partly with the actual perceptions of the Model A drivers.

For example ............... most Model A drivers can feel very comfortable driving on back roads at 70 mph in a new heavy SUV ................... however ............ only a very few Model A drivers can feel most comfortable driving on back roads at 70 mph while riding on light weight roller skates.
 
FrankWest said:
Beware, These cars are almost 90 years old. It is nice to speculate what they performed like when new. But, don't push them, or you may wind up pushing them all the way home and looking for a replacement engine. My 1933 model B easily wants to cruise at 50 mph, but I feel safer driving at around 40. Maybe I am just scared.
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I never understand these statements.

Why would they break easier now that they are 90 years old?

The reason why they break is because the work was done wrong. When they are brought back to factory they fine. It is when you use inferior parts and not correct build the cars that they break.

From what I read you should expect 50,000 to 80,000 miles between babbitt jobs if they are done right. I am pretty sure that was what the NY City police department was reporting. Keep in mind that was with 3 tear downs to re-shim the motor. I could be remembering that wrong, but that is what was sticking in my head.
 
I owned my first 30 coupe about 30 years ago. My dad helped me a lot with it back then. He was a very good mechanic, actually owned a Ford/Mercury wrecking yard back in the day. Anyway, I remember asking him about how fast his Model A's could go and he told me a story about his older sister catching him doing 55 mph in one of his $25 Model A's while she came up behind him in her Merc. He was born in '23 so I imagine this took place in the early 40s. He said that's as fast as it would go... maybe his cars by then were worn out?
 
Kevin in NJ, I would imagine that metal fatigue has to play a role in there somewhere. In my life as a repair person now and then I would run across equipment that had run way beyond it's normal life-span. You would see some of the strangest stuff broken. A culmination of heat, vibration, and stress over time.
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
We do. We statically balance everything except the crank and the flywheel assy. Dynamically on those. Quite honestly, I suspect all of the major rebuilders do it too.

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Good to hear that Brent . And would you accept a warranty claim if the engine failed after circling a race track for 7 hours at 60 mph? No matter how good the rebuild I think this expectation is way too high.
 
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I drive my tudor at 50-55 on the state roads, but I stay off the interstate roads where traffic is 65-75.
 
johnbuckley said:
Good to hear that Brent . And would you accept a warranty claim if the engine failed after circling a race track for 7 hours at 60 mph? No matter how good the rebuild I think this expectation is way too high.
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John, I reluctantly am going to answer this even though I am smart enough to know that people will only believe what seems believable to them. If folks have trouble believing they will go for 7 hours at 2500 RPM, then who am I to try to convince them differently, ....however let's at least take a moment to analyze what folks feel is going to fail, ...and why.

Generally speaking, most people are going to overlook valvetrain or connecting rod failures and go straight to the main bearings as the culprit. More specifically, most are going to blame the Center Main.
So let's explore the "why". I have shown the factory print for A-6340 & 6346 here before which shows the shim thickness to be about ½ the thickness size of the reproduction shims available today. I tend to subscribe to the theory that the thicker the shims, the better chance the cap has of "walking" or moving around, --but either way, it is all about supporting the crankshaft center journal pin to keep crank flex or whip at bay.

Next comes the thought about burnishing bearings. Ford's foreman's logs mention this, and aftermarket service machines such as KR Wilson mention Ford Agencies need to be burnishing the bearing material and they sold machines to do this task. When you study the theory on this, burnishing is the plastic deformation of a surface to smooth its roughness - which means it increases it's bearing area. Maximum bearing area means minimum contact pressure and maximum life. Burnishing is also an effective way to work-harden a surface and improve its finish at the same time. Now adding to this, I am pretty sure Ford originally reamed his bearings instead of line boring. So by now, hopefully 'one realizes that properly peened in babbitt, followed by reaming, then burnishing creates a very durable babbitt, ....unlike the practices of many engine rebuilders who have omitted many of these steps and given a bad reputation to use of babbitt.

And finally, a large percentage of crankshafts in Model-A engine's today are out of alignment. Crankshaft work and engine cleaning are the two least profitable jobs in an engine rebuilder's shop. Therefore it is easy for a mediocre rebuilder to skip the steps on straightening and normalizing due to the added time (expense). So comparatively speaking, you have a nearly new Model-A crankshaft that was machined to a tight tolerance and has not been thru many oscillation cycles vs. a reground Model-A crankshaft that more often than not, hasn't been straightened, not ground on center, and not been dynamically balanced, yet this crankshaft and babbitt bearings are the benchmark by which many will claim the Ford Model-A engine cannot be reliably driven at 60 MPH. Folks, feel free to counter and disprove amongst what I am suggesting, because this is like touting which is the best engine oil, and I am choosing to step away and observe from the grandstands. :D
 
Ran a stock body cpe flat head at 88mph , but engine not totally stock, got my timing tag too prove it , cruise my almost stock delivery at 100k . has a Mitchel & B carb . Teds brakes & f1 steering box ,
 
When I bought our 1929 Tudor in 1968, it only had 52,000 original miles on it. It had stock tires and a 3.78 rear axle. The motor ran well and it was our second car for 6 years. I ran the interstates with it and it was happy running along all day at 62 mph. In a hurry, I would sometimes push it to 70 mph. Finally one day, I threw number 3 rod bearing while pushing it at 70 mph. A quick swap of a rod from a parts engine got it together again. The con rod was badly mismatched for weight and the Tudor would not do anymore than 60 MPH after that bad experience. So the problem at running high speeds is getting enough oil to a well balanced engine. Now a days, with our tudor, I usually run the freeways at 62 mph. But now in our tudor, I have a model B engine with 3.54 gears in the rear. Nowadays, I do not drive any faster than 62 MPH because that still is our Tudor's sweet spot. Will it still do 70 MPH? Probably. I don't know and I don't have to find out.
 

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A lot of people will disagree with me, but metal "ages"! And I don't mean oxidation! That too, but that's a separate issue. To illustrate my point, we had some old, WW1 and older 30-06 ammo that we tried firing in our Springfields and the cases either split at the neck or the bases came off. The brass was aging! This was clean stuff too. They looked good! Another example are the old springs in guns. Cocking an old gun (100yrs+) can break the hammer spring. Then there's the example of the ubiquitous model A Block. Obviously, far more engines survived than cars. People took out good running engines, stored them away, just waiting for us to come along. We find them and they're cracked. What happened? Talk to a rebuilder! Ora Landis (Schwalms) told me he went through 4 or 5 blocks to get a good one. So a whole lot of somebodys just saved a bunch of scrap iron for 50-60 years? Not likely! Most of those blocks cracked while they were in storage. So as a practical matter, we have to face the fact that metal ages.
Terry


Kevin in NJ said:
I never understand these statements.

Why would they break easier now that they are 90 years old?

The reason why they break is because the work was done wrong. When they are brought back to factory they fine. It is when you use inferior parts and not correct build the cars that they break.

From what I read you should expect 50,000 to 80,000 miles between babbitt jobs if they are done right. I am pretty sure that was what the NY City police department was reporting. Keep in mind that was with 3 tear downs to re-shim the motor. I could be remembering that wrong, but that is what was sticking in my head.
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Good afternoon...It would seem to me to depend on which rear end a Model A is running. Speed on flat ground is much easier with a 3.27 rear end than a 3.54 or a 3.78. If you need to up a steep hill, then a turtle might pass you! In 1931 I doubt that many places had a paved road a couple of hundred miles long so that you could attempt to drive 60 miles and hour all day long.
 
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