Panhard Bars?

Phred

Phred

Senior Member
For the Model A Ford and panhard bars:

1) If one was only going to have only one bar, is a front or rear bar most beneficial?

2) Other than ease of attachment:

Does it matter if the bar is anchored to chassis at the steering box side or the other side?

Does it matter if a front bar and a rear bar are anchored to the same side of the chassis, or should they be anchored on opposite sidea?

Thanks in advance.
 
hmm im trying to think of modern cars and how they are setup. My chevette has a rear only and it mounts to drivers side body pass side axle. I cant imagine it really matters.

I would think if your going to run both they should be opposite but i dont think it would matter. Just be aware of the drag link and exhaust pipe.

I think the front would benefit the most - both the front and rear only have 3 points of support but the rear is a bit more stable due to the fact the 3rd point at the trans is hard bolted. The front has steering forces and a small ball by comparison to keep everything in check. Stiffen that up and controls side to side sway and might stiffen up the steering response.
 
I don't see any benefit with having one installed front or rear. Won't it kind of mess with the original suspension design?
 
panhard bars are worthless on the stock model A and normally so poorly setup on other to be worthless there too.

What problem are you trying to solve with the addition of this suspension link ?
where would you anchor it on each end? do your stock shocks function as they should ?

My front end is very stable during braking both hard and normal short, and while turning. I have a stock suspension setup. and I leave black skid marks on my driveway too, and drift it around the horseshoe drive.

can you give any details on the panhard bar you are using ?
 
Mr. Holister sir, to specifically answer your questions, the front will be the most beneficial because it controls bump steer. Either side will be the same in a street-driven application, however in on-track scenarios, the roll center factors in, and most would want it on the inboard side.

As far as the type to use, if I were in your shoes, to make the aestethics look era correct, I would probably use two Model-T tie rods and weld them together. The ball studs for the ends are available from T vendors, and by using Model-T parts, you don't hear grief from the Model-A guys that you destroyed good Model-A parts!
ROFL.gif
 
Brent,
Thank you for the direct answers. I suspected that if we would be turning both port and starboard, that it wouldn't matter which side of the chassis the bar is anchored on.

Peace to all,
Phred
 
Just a thought! A panhard bar is used to control lateral movement of the frame relative to the chassis. Tom W. has it figured out correctly. The transverse leaf springs front and rear control that lateral movement. Roll center height is determined by where that lateral control passes thru the centerline of the chassis, meaning that it is pre-determined by the location of the mounting point of the spring. It is my opinion that you can get the effect of a panhard rod by simply tightening your spring mounting bolts and restoring the bushings at the spring shackles. Because of the solid front axle, and the fact that both steering arms move in the same manner as the front axle, what little bump steer there is on a Model A is determined by the condition of the pivot ball at the rear of the front wishbone, which also controls the amount of caster gain or loss, and the degree of Ackerman. Also because of the straight front axle the camber gain/loss on one side of the car is exactly the same as the camber gain/loss on the other side of the car. When was the last time you saw a race car suspension patterned after a Model A suspension set up?

Again, just the thoughts of one old man!
 
Last edited:
Doesn't it swing wildly on the shackles and lurch from side to side because one end of each spring is not bolted down (like the leaf springs on all other vehicles)?
 
TomballMottershaw said:
panhard bars are worthless on the stock model A and normally so poorly setup on other to be worthless there too.

What problem are you trying to solve with the addition of this suspension link ?
where would you anchor it on each end? do your stock shocks function as they should ?

My front end is very stable during braking both hard and normal short, and while turning. I have a stock suspension setup. and I leave black skid marks on my driveway too, and drift it around the horseshoe drive.

can you give any details on the panhard bar you are using ?
Click to expand...


Just so we are all singing off the same song page, Phred really does not have a "stock Model-A", ...and I may have been more privy to that when I made my answer than others.

Naturally there are poorly engineered race cars out there too, however there are more good cars out there that DO use a Panhard Bar with great success. And, since I have actually raced several types of Model-As, I can tell you that keeping the axles located under the frame is VERY important to a predictable handling car. I started off using a Panhard Bar on my cars, and later made a fixed spring perch that used the right front spring eye to locate the axle in relationship to the frame. While there was more movement in using that method, there was still a level of predictability over flopping spring shackles.

Ironically, a Panhard bar is still used today in many forms of racing for the cars that are using a straight axle, however they go by different names in different types of motorsports. Since Will Cronkrite was a top NASCAR crew chief, he called them Track Bars, and since we race in dirt, we call them J-Bars. In modern racing, we actually use the location points on the frame, -and on the axle to tighten or loosen the handling. For those trying to replicate an era race car, having that adjustability is kinda moot since that technology had not really been discovered yet.
 
Brent.............Insa tires on the front of a race car? :eek::D

Speaking of "Acherman", my neighbor bought a go kart that had the reverse of Acherman, where the steering angles converged to the front of the go kart, rather than the center of the rear axle. I thought this had to be homemade by someone that didn't have a clue about steering geometry:eek:, but then I spotted an identical kart at a swap meet. I asked the guy where he bought the kart, and was told it came from Northern tools and was made in China. Needless to say that kart steered about as well as a dead mule, and it was made even worse by the live axle.
 
Excuse my ignorance but on majority of the cars in those pics whats the curved "hook" on the pass side axle for? It just hangs down and doesn't appear to be connected to anything...

Tom - I think I had one of those carts, full lock didn't steer worth a darn with severe washout when it did and had severe understeer, winter driving had some interesting times haha
 
Awesome pictures Brent. Especially this one driftin'. :p:p
 

Attachments

  • 942574_10200866402320098_910677715_n.jpg
    942574_10200866402320098_910677715_n.jpg
    47.8 KB · Views: 18
Tom Wesenberg said:
Brent.............Insa tires on the front of a race car? :eek::D
Click to expand...

Uhh Ohh, ...you spotted a speed secret!!
ROFL.gif


.

.


SeaSlugs said:
Excuse my ignorance but on majority of the cars in those pics whats the curved "hook" on the pass side axle for? It just hangs down and doesn't appear to be connected to anything...
Click to expand...

It's called a Shoe, (--or in the Purist's world, a pitted Model-A front bumper bracket! :eek:) . A Shoe is an era safety device so that if you lose a spindle or front wheel, the Shoe acts as a ski to keep the front from digging in and potentially barrel-rolling the vehicle.
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
It's called a Shoe, (--or in the Purist's world, a pitted Model-A front bumper bracket! :eek:) . A Shoe is an era safety device so that if you lose a spindle or front wheel, the Shoe acts as a ski to keep the front from digging in and potentially barrel-rolling the vehicle.
Click to expand...

Here in Chicago is saves the rim from bottoming the pot holes:eek:
 
Supposedly can't use the front pan' bar with tube shocks. Would only having a rear bar produce any detrimental effects or stress on the rear end if only it's connected from 1 side frame rail and then attached to the pumpkin?
 
As already mentioned, the Panhard Rod limits lateral movement of the axle. If you can install only one, I would put it on the front. Attached photo is a good example of installation.
 

Attachments

  • Panhard Rod.jpg
    Panhard Rod.jpg
    41.4 KB · Views: 48
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top