Snyders 6.1-1 head

T

trctrdr

Member
I'm building an engine for my 29 coupe. Will be bored .060, touring cam, counterbalanced "B" crank, "B" rods, lightened flywheel (all precision balanced) new babbitt, and fresh valve job. Also "B" carb. on a bored out "A" manifold.
I of course want to install a higher compression head but can't decide which snyders head to buy. Has anyone had experience with the new 6.1 head?
Mark
 
Yes. We are actually modifying that new head for even better performance however I am of the belief that the camshaft is what makes, --or breaks the value of this head. When you say "Touring Cam", ...whose cams and what are the specs?

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Brent, your comments are very tantalizing. As I (and I'm sure many others) am contemplating purchase of a new Snyder's head, I would love your thoughts on the importance of matching the cam to this head, and specific recommendations!
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
Yes. We are actually modifying that new head for even better performance however I am of the belief that the camshaft is what makes, --or breaks the value of this head. When you say "Touring Cam", ...whose cams and what are the specs?

.
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The camshaft I am using is a reground from Snyders, part number A-5250-HP. Don't have the numbers yet as I haven't received the cam yet and they don't give the numbers in the catalog. Should be on the UPS truck today.
 
I just got of the phone with Don at Snyders, talking about an issue with the rebabbitted rods I got from them. I asked him about the stud length for the 6.1-1 head, he said it takes the standard length studs and that they had no problem with head gaskets, etc. with that head.
 
1931 flamingo said:
trctrdr: Did you go to the link that HoarseWhisperer posted above?
Paul in CT 4 pages of posts on this subject
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I did read that post, zeese, just a note on head bolts, I have rebuilt many old Ford tractor engines with flathead engines some of which had 7/16 studs and nuts and others with bolts, same configuration as a Model A. Always the bolts (course thread) were torqued to 70 ft. lb. and the nuts (fine thread) to 55 ft. lbs. I don't ever recall stripping a thread in either case. Some of these had a combination of bolts and studs and nuts. The later model (1950-1952) came from the factory with bolts as the early (1939-1949) had studs and nuts.
I have also done some work on certified airplane engines, the standard rule is to always have one to three threads showing through the nut.
Mark
 
trctrdr said:
I did read that post, zeese, just a note on head bolts, I have rebuilt many old Ford tractor engines with flathead engines some of which had 7/16 studs and nuts and others with bolts, same configuration as a Model A. Always the bolts (course thread) were torqued to 70 ft. lb. and the nuts (fine thread) to 55 ft. lbs. I don't ever recall stripping a thread in either case. Some of these had a combination of bolts and studs and nuts. The later model (1950-1952) came from the factory with bolts as the early (1939-1949) had studs and nuts.
I have also done some work on certified airplane engines, the standard rule is to always have one to three threads showing through the nut.
Mark
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Mark there is a debate for (which I have seen proof of) that it is not necessarily the threads that are the issue with tightening to 70lbs, but the deck of the block can easily be distorted when studs are over-tightened.


That cam mentioned has been reground taking material off of the heal to give it additional lift however the duration suffers and the torque band suffers because it's range (band) is pushed out even further. While I realize you have already purchased this cam, my recommendation is to use a Stipe IB330 or IB340. His 340 has a very nice, --and FLAT torque curve that with a little more compression and carburetion will make mid-80 horsepower at about 2200 RPM with a little over 170 ft. pounds of torque. The best part is this is about the same all the way down to about 1400 RPM and then it has a very gentle drop-off from there.

Where this is an advantage is, let's say you are cruising along at 55 mph (which is about 2200 RPM w/ the 3.27 gear) when you start up a steep incline or hill. With Bill's camshaft, the torque (pulling power) basically stays the same until the vehicle drops back to around 36-37mph!! In other words, you basically have the same pulling power while your speed can drop off 20mph, --and then the torque of the engine really does not fall off until you get under 800-900 RPMs, which is about 23-24mph. Remember, the engine is not lugging at the speeds but even if you wanted to ensure you were not causing damage, you could make a 3rd-to-2nd synchro-ed gear change at about 25mph that would allow the engine to operate at about 1625 RPMs (the same engine speed as 42 mph in 3rd gear!). Heck, that is the same speed many here like to cruise at!!:D

Now here's the deal, I have not been able to get that type of performance (i.e.: Torque) out of a reground camshaft. If someone can show me real world dyno numbers with a reground camshaft, then I will gladly try it, ...but this is the combination that I have found works well for my typical customer's driving style. I know some people feel like the best bang for your buck is a high-comp. head, I sometimes think that a $400 camshaft is a better value than a $325 head. Again, just an opinion and your mileage may vary!!:cool:



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Dag nab it, Brent, there you go talking sense again. It's really valuable to this group when you share with all of us the way you question accepted wisdom, and then back it up with experiments and experience. Thanks for contributing here.
 
I finally got one of Bills 330 cams after a string of re-grinds from various well reputed sources. I've had it under a 5.5 Snyder and now its mated up to a 6:1 Brumfield. Its one of those situations where you forget the price PDQ after a drive.
 
pat in Santa Cruz said:
I finally got one of Bills 330 cams after a string of re-grinds from various well reputed sources. I've had it under a 5.5 Snyder and now its mated up to a 6:1 Brumfield. Its one of those situations where you forget the price PDQ after a drive.
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Geez Pat, how many years have I been explaining on Ford Barn the geometric constrictions on reground cams and the negative effects on the torque curve? And you just recently sprung for a NEW cam??? Well as they say, better late than never! :)
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
Mark there is a debate for (which I have seen proof of) that it is not necessarily the threads that are the issue with tightening to 70lbs, but the deck of the block can easily be distorted when studs are over-tightened.


That cam mentioned has been reground taking material off of the heal to give it additional lift however the duration suffers and the torque band suffers because it's range (band) is pushed out even further. While I realize you have already purchased this cam, my recommendation is to use a Stipe IB330 or IB340. His 340 has a very nice, --and FLAT torque curve that with a little more compression and carburetion will make mid-80 horsepower at about 2200 RPM with a little over 170 ft. pounds of torque. The best part is this is about the same all the way down to about 1400 RPM and then it has a very gentle drop-off from there.

Where this is an advantage is, let's say you are cruising along at 55 mph (which is about 2200 RPM w/ the 3.27 gear) when you start up a steep incline or hill. With Bill's camshaft, the torque (pulling power) basically stays the same until the vehicle drops back to around 36-37mph!! In other words, you basically have the same pulling power while your speed can drop off 20mph, --and then the torque of the engine really does not fall off until you get under 800-900 RPMs, which is about 23-24mph. Remember, the engine is not lugging at the speeds but even if you wanted to ensure you were not causing damage, you could make a 3rd-to-2nd synchro-ed gear change at about 25mph that would allow the engine to operate at about 1625 RPMs (the same engine speed as 42 mph in 3rd gear!). Heck, that is the same speed many here like to cruise at!!:D

Now here's the deal, I have not been able to get that type of performance (i.e.: Torque) out of a reground camshaft. If someone can show me real world dyno numbers with a reground camshaft, then I will gladly try it, ...but this is the combination that I have found works well for my typical customer's driving style. I know some people feel like the best bang for your buck is a high-comp. head, I sometimes think that a $400 camshaft is a better value than a $325 head. Again, just an opinion and your mileage may vary!!:cool:



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Hey, it's only money, besides, my other half doesn't really know how much of that I have. She can't believe I can just keep spending "all that money" on toys.
M&M
 
I just this weekend pulled the engine out of my 29, good thing as it was about to leave me sitting somewhere. The camshaft gear had a number of teeth nearly completely stripped off. There didn't seem to be any backlash between the gears. Can't see O.S. markings on the fiber gear but I suspect the last re-builder had installed an oversize gear where a standard gear should have been. Probably a good investment would be a steel gear (with the proper backlash)
opinions?
 
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