Model A starter in a B?

jim1932

jim1932

Well-known member
OK, the armature in my B is bent. My neighbor had a couple of old 4's from model A's so we pulled one to try it. It looks like it might work but although it spins fine off the car, it does nothing on the car (even if we hook directly to the starter). I was hoping we could "steal" the armature off the A and put it in my B starter?
 
The entire starter will fit but you can't attach the starter switch. The Model B switch has 3 screws and the Model A has 4. I have heard of people getting it to fit but I would recommend doing it right.

Charlie Stephens
 
Charlie,

I plan on getting it right...eventually. For now all we are trying to do is get the motor to run. We want to make sure we aren't putting good parts on a bad motor. We still have to pull the tank and radiator to get them flushed (we are using a small auxilary tank now. I need to rebuild the fuel pump. We want to put the starter on and activate the plunger by hand just to see if it will run. It turned over nicely with the plugs out, but the starter made a rumbling noise. When we pulled the starter and ran it out of the car the bent shaft was obvious. The original starter needs a solonoid switch too. The spring has broken in ours. When we looked at the A we saw right away that the switch had the wrong number of holes. At this point I am inclined to replace it all with aftermarket parts. As I find original parts or rebuild mine I can replace the aftermarket ones and keep them for backup.
 
jim1932 said:
Charlie,

I plan on getting it right...eventually. For now all we are trying to do is get the motor to run. We want to make sure we aren't putting good parts on a bad motor. We still have to pull the tank and radiator to get them flushed (we are using a small auxilary tank now. I need to rebuild the fuel pump. We want to put the starter on and activate the plunger by hand just to see if it will run. It turned over nicely with the plugs out, but the starter made a rumbling noise. When we pulled the starter and ran it out of the car the bent shaft was obvious. The original starter needs a solonoid switch too. The spring has broken in ours. When we looked at the A we saw right away that the switch had the wrong number of holes. At this point I am inclined to replace it all with aftermarket parts. As I find original parts or rebuild mine I can replace the aftermarket ones and keep them for backup.
Click to expand...

If you want to work the switch with your hand while standing beside the car and pushing on it you should be able to use the Model A starter and switch. Neither the Model A or Model B starter uses a solenoid switch (electrical). They both should have mechanical switches. Let me know if you need a picture of the Model B (or Model A) starter switch. Are you possibly talking about the Bendix drive at the end of the starter shaft that engages the ring gear? An alternative would be to use the hand crank. If you don't know how to hand crank safely check the archives or post the question.

Charlie Stephens
 
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Charlie, Thanks for the info. I have both types of starters and have had both solenoids off to clean them. You are correct in that we were trying to simply stand by the motor and fire it by hand. Worked with the B starter(although the bent shaft made a rumbling sound. The A starter doesn't want to do it. It worked fine on the floor. Maybe the battery wasn't charged enough.
 
oops... just realized i was calling the switch a solenoid. We would have hand cranked it if I had a crank. I guess I will take the shaft from the A starter and get a reproduction switch for now.
 
jim1932 said:
oops... just realized i was calling the switch a solenoid. We would have hand cranked it if I had a crank. I guess I will take the shaft from the A starter and get a reproduction switch for now.
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Jim,

I don't think you will find a reproduction of the '32 switch but they show up on EBay. Also try Baxter's Ford Parts (785) 842-9256 and advertising here. I can't tell you the details but I think the '33-'34 looks about the same but doesn't fit quite right.

Charlie Stephens
 
Charlie,

Judging from Jim's photos, his car is an early B with a hand controlled starter switch (at least the knob on the steering column shows up in his photos), so the difference between '32 and '33-'34 foot-controlled starter switches should not be an issue here. Lots of NOS and NORS hand-controlled B switches show up on eBay with opening prices all over the map, as you mentioned, and most go off without any bidders.

All but early '28 Model A starter armatures should work in a Model B starter motor. Perhaps there are some dead spots on the the 'A' armature that Jim tried -- that would explain the weak performance.
 
DavidG said:
Charlie,

Judging from Jim's photos, his car is an early B with a hand controlled starter switch (at least the knob on the steering column shows up in his photos), so the difference between '32 and '33-'34 foot-controlled starter switches should not be an issue here. Lots of NOS and NORS hand-controlled B switches show up on eBay with opening prices all over the map, as you mentioned, and most go off without any bidders.

All but early '28 Model A starter armatures should work in a Model B starter motor. Perhaps there are some dead spots on the the 'A' armature that Jim tried -- that would explain the weak performance.
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David,

You are absolutely correct. I saw your post when I went back to correct mine. I was thinking about the foot operated starter switch being different and confused the two in my mind. I checked the Green Bible and the difference in the foot operated switch was apparently a figment of my imagination as it shows the same switch '32-'24 (40-11450). Maybe I was thinking about the '35-'36 being different but it has been a long time.

Charlie Stephens
 
Charlie,

You were right the first time. There's a difference in the switches and it's not a figment of your imagination. Just add it to the long list of reasons why one should avoid the so-called Green Bible when the car in question is a '32. The relationship of the angle of the steering column to the #1 floorboard differs from '32 to that of the '33-'34s and this is reflected in the foot-operated starter switch. The switch push rod on a '32 is parallel to the steering column whereas on a '33-'34 it is at about a 15 degree angle. While you might be able to bend the feet on the '33-'34 switch to achieve the angle required for the '32 push rod, it is a less than ideal situation. The use of a '33-'34 switch without modification on a '32 may cause the rod to hang up on the hole in the #1 floorboard with highly undesirable results. Of course, if one did not care about where the push rod mushroom ends up on the floor board, they could drill a new hole in their #1 floorboard and punch a new hole in their near-impossible-to-replace reproduction floor mat. They'd also have to use a '33-'34 push rod as the '32 rod would not be long enough.
 
Charlie Stephens said:
Jim,

I don't think you will find a reproduction of the '32 switch but they show up on EBay. Also try Baxter's Ford Parts (785) 842-9256 and advertising here. I can't tell you the details but I think the '33-'34 looks about the same but doesn't fit quite right.

Charlie Stephens
Click to expand...

DavidG said:
Charlie,

Judging from Jim's photos, his car is an early B with a hand controlled starter switch (at least the knob on the steering column shows up in his photos), so the difference between '32 and '33-'34 foot-controlled starter switches should not be an issue here. Lots of NOS and NORS hand-controlled B switches show up on eBay with opening prices all over the map, as you mentioned, and most go off without any bidders.

All but early '28 Model A starter armatures should work in a Model B starter motor. Perhaps there are some dead spots on the the 'A' armature that Jim tried -- that would explain the weak performance.
Click to expand...

Jim,

I think I have some extra pull type switches. I had collected these before I realized I needed a foot switch. PM me your address and I'll send them to you.

Scott

Keep V-8ing and 4-banging!
 
DavidG said:
Charlie,

You were right the first time. There's a difference in the switches and it's not a figment of your imagination. Just add it to the long list of reasons why one should avoid the so-called Green Bible when the car in question is a '32. The relationship of the angle of the steering column to the #1 floorboard differs from '32 to that of the '33-'34s and this is reflected in the foot-operated starter switch. The switch push rod on a '32 is parallel to the steering column whereas on a '33-'34 it is at about a 15 degree angle. While you might be able to bend the feet on the '33-'34 switch to achieve the angle required for the '32 push rod, it is a less than ideal situation. The use of a '33-'34 switch without modification on a '32 may cause the rod to hang up on the hole in the #1 floorboard with highly undesirable results. Of course, if one did not care about where the push rod mushroom ends up on the floor board, they could drill a new hole in their #1 floorboard and punch a new hole in their near-impossible-to-replace reproduction floor mat. They'd also have to use a '33-'34 push rod as the '32 rod would not be long enough.
Click to expand...



David,

Thanks for the sanity check, that is the story as I remember it. The Green Bible probably assumes the mechanic could bend or drill to fit and send the customer home.

Charlie Stephens
 
Charlie Stephens said:
Jim,

I don't think you will find a reproduction of the '32 switch but they show up on EBay. Also try Baxter's Ford Parts (785) 842-9256 and advertising here. I can't tell you the details but I think the '33-'34 looks about the same but doesn't fit quite right.

Charlie Stephens
Click to expand...

Since others may read this, I did find a reproduction switch through Dick Spadaro in Altamont New York (http://dickspadaro.com/) .

I will report back on how it compares to the original.
 
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