Won't start!

Terry NJ

Terry NJ

Well-known member
How many times I've read this here and thought "Well it's the this or the that"! Its so easy to diagnose other people's problems from the comfort of my armchair! Now I can't get my car started, Yeah I've been through the usual tests, The whole Nine yards! I haven't bothered with a compression test because it ran fine a couple of months ago and this thing doesn't even begin to fire, or even pop. I sprayed starter fluid into the Carb thinking it was a gas/fuel problem, Nothing! I changed the distributor plate and got voltage to the points. This is the coupe that I put the new ignition switch into. I won't even pop or belch. It appears to be a no spark problem. Since I first tangled with this, I've changed the ignition switch, coil, points, dist. plate. Checked the pig tail, Condenser, Timed and retimed it, checked the gas flow. put gas into it. Gone over with an Ohm and voltage meter and it just doesn't want to start. Let's see, Ya need three things to run, Fuel, Compression, and ignition, oh yeah and Timing! (4 things) Any suggestions? Methinks it's in the ignition somewhere.
Terry
 
Here's some great information

http://modelabasics.com/Roadside Troubleshooting.htm

Now the red is the primary, DC, low voltage (6V or 12V)... If you've got that and
your engine turns over do you see the ammeter move side to side from 0 volts (read below --that the points opening and closing....) ? If so, and stated below, you're primary circuit is likely OK...

Primary%20System.gif


Quick Check: Ignition (Primary)
With ignition on, turn the engine over and observe the ammeter. If the needle jiggles the primary side of the electrical system is working. This includes: ignition switch, pop-out cable, points, condenser, primary side of coil, and the hidden wire in the distributor connecting the upper plate to the lower plate. (Paraphrased from Tom Endy’s article “Model A Ford Ignition Diagnostics”)

Note: For early Model A’s up until November 1929 the ammeter was not wired into the primary ignition circuit. To convert:

Disconnect the battery. Open the terminal box on the firewall. Locate the black wire leading from the coil to the terminal on the passenger side, move this wire to the terminal on the driver side. The Ammeter Needle will now jiggle to help with diagnostics.
(Paraphrased from Tom Endy’s article “Model A Ford Ignition Diagnostics”)

(See Ignition opens a new page)

Quick Check: Ignition (Secondary)
To check the secondary side of the electrical system, remove one brass spark plug connector from the distributor and position it approximately a ¼ of an inch above its terminal on the distributor. Using the key turn the engine over and observe the gap to see if a bright yellowish-blue spark, with a loud snapping sound is being created

No spark/poor spark; Culprits include:

Failed condenser
Lower plate wire broke or shorted
Point gap closing up
Pop-out cable to tight and grounding out in distributor
(See Ignition opens a new page)
 
Terry,

having the same problem. Why dont we sit back in our armchairs and find someone here on the Barn to come out and "fix" the problem once and for all?
I'm willing to pay because it certainly is frustrating. Thought Model A's were supposed to be "easy"....................
cant enjoy them if you cant drive them!

haha!
 
You state you are getting voltage to the points. Not much after that, just the coil. Are the points closing all the way? Opening? Have you tried opening and closing the points while looking at a spark plug?
 
"APPEARS TO BE SPARK"
Did you physically hold the coil wire a 1/4 inch from a head nut with the key on and check for spark when cranking it????
 
Mitch//pa said:
"APPEARS TO BE SPARK"
Did you physically hold the coil wire a 1/4 inch from a head nut with the key on and check for spark when cranking it????
Click to expand...

I was going to suggest that his wife/girl friend hold the coil wire while he cranked it and watch for her to start "jigglin' around" but that wouldn't be nice... :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
LOL , All kidding aside, I tried the cranking and watching the ammeter. I tried filing and resetting the points. Got good readings with the ohmmeter. Still Nothing! Just the tiniest flicker that probably from the shaking. I also tried Mitch's test, hold the coil wire while I cranked it and no spark, no Flicker no snap, Nada! Is this a sign from the Gods that the coil is NG? I've got a few, but I can't tell if they're good on not. Anyone got a sure fire test for coils?
Terry
 
We're at opposite ends of the county, but his shop's in Philadelphia. But I do want to get down there one of these days. We'll probably both be at the Hellertown Mod A day, Apr 23. But I want this car running by then and bring it there. This is my nicest A and I want to show it off a little. Oh and BTW, I'm cheep cause that all the gubmint gives us in SS!
Terry


Tom Wesenberg said:
It sounds like you are close to Mitch, and I'd suggest getting it to his shop so Mitch can look it over. :)
Click to expand...
 
Terry,

One other thing to check is the coil wire to the distributor. You say you are not getting spark to jump a gap, but if that wire is bad or the ends are not making contact that would do it, even if you are getting 6V at all check points.

Jerry
 
My first check would be to stop the engine with the points open and key on, then short the points contacts to see if the coil wire will make a hot 1/4" blue spark.

If it does, then the points need to be cleaned.
 
Here's the latest! I reversed the leads on the coil and the stupid things actually popped, belched and farted! It didn't run more than a couple of seconds, but it stopped being totally dead. This told me something about the ammeter. When it was ready to start, the needle would swing back and forth. When the needle was still, it wouldn't start. So, It seems like a loose wire or something. Could it be a bad coil? A loose wire internally? We're zeroing in on it! All my connections seem tight, wires not frayed. I was thinking of jumping the ammeter. This is the car that had the 8V battery for a while and I wonder...
The 8V was good at burning out headlights, maybe something else too, but what? As an aside, I'm having generator problems too. I think it's all due to the 8V, maybe not.
Terry
 
Tom, I cleaned the points with a file and checked the closed points with the ohm meter- good continuity! But I will try your test. Something seems to be making an intermittent contact.
Terry



Tom Wesenberg said:
My first check would be to stop the engine with the points open and key on, then short the points contacts to see if the coil wire will make a hot 1/4" blue spark.

If it does, then the points need to be cleaned.
Click to expand...
 
Sounds like the ammeter is telling you the point side of the coil isn't working. This is where a test light is quick and handy. It should stay lit constant on the neg side of the coil and flash on the pos side when cranking. If the lights stay on at the pos, something is open between the coil and the point ground. If the light stays off you either have no voltage through the coil or a rgound somewhere to the points. Work down the line from the coil and see where the problem is. With the ammeter not being pegged discharge, most likely you are losing contact somewhere to the points.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top