crap in a 59 block

OLD AS I

OLD AS I

Senior Member
Some years ago I got a complete '46 (basket case) 59 engine. Just striped it down to have it checked. Have a high pressure hot water washer so I thought Id wash it down and blow out the water jackets. I couldn't believe the stuff that came out, all kinds of maple tree seeds, the "helicopters" we called them as kids, dirt, sand, plastic strips. Are these water passages big enough to allow mice to nest inside ? Will be telling shop to extra flush it if it checks out ok. Clyds appear sleeved, are all these blocks sleeved from factory ?

Should I stay away from rebuilding a sleeved engine, ? are sleeves readily available ? can a sleeved engine be bored if needed ? pros and cons about a sleeved block ?
 
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NO, the 59 engine did not come from the factory sleeved. Some one has sleeved the block. If I was you I'd try to find a shop that has a baking oven to bake the block and run it through a short peen machine. Walt
 
Hmmmm . . . I have seen 59 engines (where just the 59 was on the back) have the thin tin-can sleeves - and the smaller 221 bores as a result. Have never built one myself, but I've heard you can knock the sleeves out of then, do a slight bore/hone and be somewhere north of 3 3/16 (239 cubes).
 
The idee of the tin can sleeves was to be able to rebuild without boring.
Knocking them out honing and using .0825 pistons.
 
This is hearsay, but I have read posts here and read articles in my Flathead engine books that mention 59 blocks with 3-1/16" bores that were made by FoMoCo strickly as service blocks for vehicles that used 24 stud engines from mid-late '38 to '42 (maybe including the war years) prior to the introduction of 59 series 3-3/16" bored engines. I don't believe these service blocks were 3-3/16" bores sleeved down to 3-1/16" bores. They were probably originally cast as 3-1/16" bore blocks. Although, who is left in the know on these things and this information today, that could say that FoMoCo didn't sleeve some original 59 3-3/16" blocks down to 3-1/16" bore on special occasions, or in emergency ssituations as required? I've been told to never say never and/or always say always when it comes to what Ford actuall made or produced on their assembly lines back in the day.
 
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Sleeves are great ! they are made out of cast iron and if installed properly they are as good as a new cylinder... there is no problem with heat conduction as the sleeves are installed really tight... you need to freeze the sleeves and heat the block to install them...and they are locked at the bottom of the cylinder so they can not move...

I sure would not go any larger than needed.... one great thing about the sleeves is you can sleeve an engine back to a stock bore... great repair...

Joel
Retired Shop Teacher
 
JM 35 Sedan said:
This is hearsay, but I have read posts here and read articles in my Flathead engine books that mention 59 blocks with 3-1/16" bores that were made by FoMoCo strickly as service blocks for vehicles that used 24 stud engines from mid-late '38 to '42 (maybe including the war years) prior to the introduction of 59 series 3-3/16" bored engines. I don't believe these service blocks were 3-3/16" bores sleeved down to 3-1/16" bores. They were probably originally cast as 3-1/16" bore blocks. Although, who is left in the know on these things and this info today, that could say that FoMoCo didn't sleeve some original 59 3-3/16" blocks up to 3-1/16" bore on special occasions, or in emergencies as required? I've been told to never say never and/or always say always when it comes to what Ford actuall made or produced on their assembly lines back in the day.
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You are correct. I had one of these mythical beasts. Not sleeved, but 3 1/16" bore with 59 cast clear as day on the bell. Bought it early on before I really knew about flatheads. Sold it before using it.
 
jrapose said:
Sleeves are great ! they are made out of cast iron and if installed properly they are as good as a new cylinder... there is no problem with heat conduction as the sleeves are installed really tight... you need to freeze the sleeves and heat the block to install them...and they are locked at the bottom of the cylinder so they can not move...

I sure would not go any larger than needed.... one great thing about the sleeves is you can sleeve an engine back to a stock bore... great repair...

Joel
Retired Shop Teacher
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I believe there are two (at least) types of sleeves used in flatheads. One is the thicker cast iron and the other is a very thin steel sleeve.
 
JM 35 Sedan said:
This is hearsay, but I have read posts here and read articles in my Flathead engine books that mention 59 blocks with 3-1/16" bores that were made by FoMoCo strickly as service blocks for vehicles that used 24 stud engines from mid-late '38 to '42 (maybe including the war years) prior to the introduction of 59 series 3-3/16" bored engines. I don't believe these service blocks were 3-3/16" bores sleeved down to 3-1/16" bores. They were probably originally cast as 3-1/16" bore blocks. Although, who is left in the know on these things and this info today, that could say that FoMoCo didn't sleeve some original 59 3-3/16" blocks up to 3-1/16" bore on special occasions, or in emergencies as required? I've been told to never say never and/or always say always when it comes to what Ford actuall made or produced on their assembly lines back in the day.
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My Dad has an NOS 59 block with the 3-1/16" bore. No sleeves in it. He bought it covered in factory cosmoline, as a bare block with no internals.

I've never seen a block with a 59 casting that had the stock tin sleeves. Lots of people call the 1938 to 1948 blocks a "59", but they are lumping the early 24 studs into where they shouldn't.
 
I have a block cast with the 59 on the bell in my stand right now. 3 1/16 bore. At first I was disappointed it had the small bore, but heck it's got some nice thick walls and I rarely drive over 40 mph anyhow.. It is currently .060 over with a very light ridge which I removed and then honed. When I had my '38 an old guy referred to it's steel sleeved engine as "one of them soup can motors".
 
I've built a few of those 59 blocks 3-1/16 with no sleeves. I always bore them to 3-3/16, BUT, you could install the 3-1/16 tin can sleeves but you have to cut the step on top, The cast iron sleeves are usually 3/32 or 1/8 wall. I wouldn't sleeve a block unless it had a real bad wall, there is plenty of oversize pistons, 3-1/16 or the 3-3/16. Walt
 
I agree with Walt - just go to a 3 3/16 bore and have a nice 239 cubic inch motor (stock crank). There is no reason to bore the block for thick sleeves - as it actually weakens the block (especially with 8 sleeves).

Plenty of room in most of these old engines for a 3 3/16 bore . . . and pistons/rings galore (wow, that rhymed . . . I'm getting good!). :)
 
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