Thermostats

Old Henry said:
On the other hand, Mr. Ford thought 160° was right since that's what he put in the operator's manual. The Stant stats don't come in 160° but 170°. I still think that's cool enough. (And hot enough too.) Opinions do definitely vary.
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That is not true Henry, that was just the best they could do at the time because of other factors. The limits in technology at the time do not equate to the best approach. Ford engineers (and Henry) were very intelligent folks and understood both thermodynamics and engines. Part of the problem at the time was what was being used for anti-freeze. As soon as the limiting factors were overcome Ford raised the recommend operation temperatures of their engines to take advantage of the factors I listed. Limitations of the era do not change the laws of thermodynamics! The hotter you can run any engine the better (within other limiting factors not related to the thermodynamics of the engine).

I have posted this several times before, quote from 1949-52 Ford Truck shop manual:

"The cooling system used on trucks is the pressure type, having a regulated pressure of 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 pounds maintained in the system while in operation. With this pressure system, the coolant is allowed to reach a higher boiling point. This higher coolant temperature reduces the loss of energy to the coolant and also assists in decreasing internal friction by maintaining a higher lubricating oil temperature."

The laws of physics and thermodynamics had not changed, the technology that allowed them to take advantage of it had. Because of better anti-freeze and other factors we today can also take advantage of the positive factors that improve engine performance with increased engine operating temperature.
 
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Well then how hot is too hot for these V8 flatheads and the rest of the accessories such as the heater system ( someone said there should be concerns of failure due to too high of heat ) heater control valves for an example.
 
Blu Dice said:
Well then how hot is too hot for these V8 flatheads and the rest of the accessories such as the heater system ( someone said there should be concerns of failure due to too high of heat ) heater control valves for an example.
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Don't think you can run one hot enough for these type of concerns. There are other limiting factors, the older systems are not pressurized so you have to stay below the boiling point of water plus a safety margin. There is also the issue of under hood temperature. If the temperature gets to high you start having vapor lock issues and/or boiling the fuel out of the carburetor float bowl, etc. Everything in life is a compromise! For me I would like to run in the 185 to 190 degree range, but a lot of other prefer a lower temperature, more in the 175 to 180 degree range. That is something you need to work out for your driving and ambient temperature conditions.
 
Old Henry said:
Before considering Shewman's stats review this real life controlled test of them vs. the Stants: http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143576
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As stated by other posters Old Henry has a campaign against Skip and
Bob Shewman. Go back to any posts on Shemans stats or skips pumps
and there is always post to discredit their quality products that over
20,000 old Ford owners have used to correct over heating problems.
Check out the problems with the negative poster and the poor quality
of his repairs and continued problems and consider the source. He loves
to see his name in print. G.M.
 
I'm still kind of bugged about the thermostats - if the gauge is spiking because of the sending units acting goofing how do I know if it's the sending units or if in fact I may have a bad thermostat? I didn't test them before installing them - this is a second set I've recently installed because I thought the first set was not opening due to the gauge spiking. If one of the thermostats was bad wouldn't it act up every time I start the car after it's cooled down - not just the first time out after sitting over nite? I guess I should pull them out and test them. Thoughts?
 
You need to get a laser pointed gun type thermometer. The only temperature
you really need is on the goose neck cover of the stats. This is the outlet of the
hot water from the engine. When taking the temperatures hold the gun about
18 inches from the outlet aim the laser at the SAME spot every time you take
a temperature and at the same angle. Take temperatures every 5 minutes and
write them down. I put a large house type fan against the grill so you have the
same conditions as driving with the engine at a speed of about 25 MPH. You
need high flow stats with larger openings like Robertshaw 330-160 or 330-180.
Modern stats with smaller flow openings restrict the flow and the best cooling is
not obtained. With GOOD water pumps both sides of the engine should run
within few degrees of each other. With 330-180 stats all of my old Fords run
between 178 and 182 on both sides at all times. Some engines may vary but
there should not be a big difference of the sides. The water from the left side
does not mix in the block with the right side, it only mixes in the radiator.
You need good accurate temperatures to know what's going on. I wouldn't
worry about 2 gauges if you have the laser gun. One you get it straightened
out the original gauge works. Make sure the radiator is full at all times. G.M.
 
Throw away the thermostats ,Here My Solution, (2) 1 1/4 outside diameter brass flat washers 3/16 thick, 1/2 in. center hole install in top rad. hoses, engine runs constantly at 185 degrees,
 
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Blu Dice said:
I'm still kind of bugged about the thermostats - if the gauge is spiking because of the sending units acting goofing how do I know if it's the sending units or if in fact I may have a bad thermostat? I didn't test them before installing them - this is a second set I've recently installed because I thought the first set was not opening due to the gauge spiking. If one of the thermostats was bad wouldn't it act up every time I start the car after it's cooled down - not just the first time out after sitting over nite? I guess I should pull them out and test them. Thoughts?
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IMHO you are way over thinking this! If it is not boiling over or creating another problem what is your concern? It was my understanding that this was a short term HIGH indication when the thermostats are opening, not a constant condition, is that correct? I'm not sure I understand your concern, looks like you are attempting to solve a non-existing problem. If you really want to monitor the temps in real time install two high quality temp gauges so you know what is really going on, the stock system will not tell you this. If you want a quick check get a heat gun like GM suggests.
 
Blu Dice said:
I'm still kind of bugged about the thermostats - if the gauge is spiking because of the sending units acting goofing how do I know if it's the sending units or if in fact I may have a bad thermostat? I didn't test them before installing them - this is a second set I've recently installed because I thought the first set was not opening due to the gauge spiking. If one of the thermostats was bad wouldn't it act up every time I start the car after it's cooled down - not just the first time out after sitting over nite? I guess I should pull them out and test them. Thoughts?
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I started testing each & every thermostat more than 25 years ago prior to installing them in any car. That was about the time I started to notice the quality was going down. Back then, yes, 25 years ago, I found perhaps one in ten new thermostats did not open correctly.
Pull them out, test them and either pinpoint their deficiency or rule them out as the cause of your new found dilemma.
Hey, if all you did was change thermostats and only then did this issue show up, it has to be the thermostat(s).
Stop guessing what the problem is and do the simple test.
 
Blu Dice said:
FYI I'm still running stock gauges. Has new belts, new hoses, '52 FH V8 with 37,000 actual original miles. I'm planning to install twin mechanical gauges very soon, but since the interior is still stock and in near perfect condition - being very picky of what and how I'm going to do it.
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get some nice Stuart warner gauges, with a chrome mount. put them under the dash. I put a oil pressure and temp gauge in my pick up, and I think it saved my motor I always like to know what is going on under my hood
 
Blu Dice said:
Testing- it takes over 200 degrees before they slowly starts to open!!
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Try drilling a 1/8" hole toward the outside of the thermostat, as an air bleed, and the small flow of coolant will insure that there is no pocket of cold just underneath the stat.

Karl
 
That explains the spike, it most likely is doing to somewhere above 206 degrees and showing the high reading then once open it goes back down to a lower average temperature. I still don't see it as an issue, but if it bothers you find some thermostats that open at a lower temperature. And it is very common for these cars to spit out a little fluid, if than is a concern GM has posted to several threads about a low pressure cap and valve in the overflow tube.
 
Well thermostats suck! Since all the auto stores are closed today I decided to cut the guts out of these and put them back in the see what happens. The gauge never spiked - runs a little cool - temperature at the radiator cap is about 160. It's 60 here this afternoon and suppose to get cooler this weekend for me to see what happens. Hey I can live with this - sick of getting crap parts - a pair of Stants and this pair are Murray - crap parts!! Drove around a bit and was nice seeing the temp gauge not acting goofing!
Thanks for all the input guys - don't eat too much turkey.
 
So did your thermostats have air bleed holes, originally?
Did you drill some/ (they don't need to be as big as 1/8")
 
The last ones had the bleed holes in them - made by Murray. I tested them and they didn't open until over 200 degrees.
 
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