'35 with juice brakes.

RobR'35 said:
I have a '35 converted to juice brakes before I bought it.
After looking at what I need to do to change worn king pins I see ive got '46-'48 backing plates all the way around.Drivers side has a '46-'48 square back spindle and the passenger side has a '37-'41 round back spindle.
Besides the some times shimmy it handles well going down the road.
Im curious if there was a change in the spindles camber '37-'41 vs '42-'48?
Click to expand...
I have that same odd combination on my '36 for no better reason than they were the first left-and-right set I could find that passed the Magnaflux inspection. That was after rejecting 6 others. There's a lot of cracked spindles out there. Mine are dimensionally identical apart from the flange shape.
Aftermarket king pin bushes seem very short-lived in my cars. I don't know whether the materials are inferior or whether it's because I'm subjecting them to heavier loads than they were designed for. Wide radial tyres and better brakes might account for it. They don't so much wear as extrude the bushing material out. When you remove the old bushes they are longer on the loaded side than the unloaded side, a sure sign the material is being squished out.
The solution for me is to make the bushes from aluminium bronze. I don't know how long they'll last but the ones in my coupe have no play after 42,000 miles.
 
JSeery said:
Yep, bearing under axle.
Click to expand...
Just for fun - attaching a picture of my 35 juice conversion where we used the 35 axle, original deep pocket 1940 Lincoln backing plate, original 1935 spindle with an adaptor ring - spindle to backing plate, 1940 Ford King pin (shortened) with a new needle thrust bearing on the bottom. The Kelsey Hayes wire wheel then bolts directly to the original 35 mechanical brake drum for perfect fit. (Click picture to enlarge)
 

Attachments

  • PICT0039.jpg
    PICT0039.jpg
    87.2 KB · Views: 52
  • PICT0041.jpg
    PICT0041.jpg
    80.1 KB · Views: 49
Last edited:
Wondering on more feedback of quality king pin kits?
Have other Barners run into similar experiences with king pin bushing problems as Allan Wylie mentioned earlier?
 
Allan Wylie said:
I have that same odd combination on my '36 for no better reason than they were the first left-and-right set I could find that passed the Magnaflux inspection. That was after rejecting 6 others. There's a lot of cracked spindles out there. Mine are dimensionally identical apart from the flange shape.
Aftermarket king pin bushes seem very short-lived in my cars. I don't know whether the materials are inferior or whether it's because I'm subjecting them to heavier loads than they were designed for. Wide radial tyres and better brakes might account for it. They don't so much wear as extrude the bushing material out. When you remove the old bushes they are longer on the loaded side than the unloaded side, a sure sign the material is being squished out.
The solution for me is to make the bushes from aluminium bronze. I don't know how long they'll last but the ones in my coupe have no play after 42,000 miles.
Click to expand...

That is interesting, have never heard of this issue before. Anyone else have a bushing problem?
 
JSeery said:
That is interesting, have never heard of this issue before. Anyone else have a bushing problem?
Click to expand...

I have the opposite problem. The Mac's bushings are extremely hard. :eek: I had a devil of the time sizing them. They are so hard they are gauling the king pins. I plan to change spindles so I just cleaned up the pins and put it back together.
 
Last edited:
The ones I have used are very hard as well, but they are older bushing. Not NOS but I've have several sets from the 60s - 70s.
 
So out of curiosity I dug out a couple of the spindles in question, took a picture and some quick rough measurements. Other than the obvious round/square shape, the only other difference would appear to be the thickness of the spindle bosses (or arms?) that the king pin goes through. Each on the later square spindles is about 1/4" thicker, which results in the king pin needing to be 1/2" longer. The notches for the retaining pins are subsequently located 1/4" different.

The reason for this change must have been to strengthen the spindle for the heavier cars of the 40's one would think.

It appears when the 37-41 spindle was installed on your car, they used the 46-48 king pin. In order to get the retaining pin to align with the notch in the king pin, it appears that some kind of spacer (about 1/4") was used on the top of the spindle. As well the other extra 1/4" of king pin appears to be sticking out on the bottom.

The steering arms appear to be pretty much the same, but hard to tell. Likely easier to spot any differences looking at them on the vehicle.

Hope this helps some, good luck.

-
 

Attachments

  • 1946-48 Ford spindles vs 1937-41.jpg
    1946-48 Ford spindles vs 1937-41.jpg
    64.9 KB · Views: 52
RobR'35 said:
Wondering on more feedback of quality king pin kits?
Have other Barners run into similar experiences with king pin bushing problems as Allan Wylie mentioned earlier?
Click to expand...

I've never had or heard of that problem before with king pin bushings, nor that many problems with cracked spindles. I have to wonder what type of driving/road conditions his cars, and others in the same area, are being subjected to.

Allan, exactly where are all of those cracks actually occuring on your spindles? What type of driving are you doing? Sounds like you have devised some type of extreme torture test for early Ford front end components ;) :)
 
Last edited:
JM 35 Sedan said:
I've never had or heard of that problem before with king pin bushings, nor that many problems with cracked spindles. I have to wonder what type of driving/road conditions his cars, and others in the same area, are being subjected to.

Allan, exactly where are all of those cracks actually occuring on your spindles? What type of driving are you doing? Sounds like you have devised some type of extreme torture test for early Ford front end components ;) :)
Click to expand...

Funny you should ask.........picture shows Allan's "road conditions and regular driving style". DD

183721
 
I haven't taken note of the brand(s) of king pin bushes that have had short service lives. It's something I've observed over decades and the only thing I can be sure of is none of them were Ford parts. I do drive my cars hard at times but I'm not sure if that accounts for it. Maybe I've just been unlucky with poor quality parts. As for cracked spindles, they're not just the ones off my car but good looking used spindles I've acquired to put on it. For the last 30 years I've made my living restoring and maintaining old cars, including the likes of Bugattis, Maseratis, Ferraris etc and made it a policy to crack-test all vital parts. It's surprising how many things turn out to have fatigue cracks in them. It doesn't necessarily mean they will break soon but they will probably break eventually.
Applying the lessons learned to my '36 coupe, I had the front spindles Magnafluxed when I had them off the car. Both were cracked and I had to have eight more checked to get a good pair. In other words, of ten used spindles I had checked, 80% were cracked. I'd be reluctant to extrapolate from this and claim that 80% of used Ford spindles are cracked but I'm willing to bet a lot of us are driving around on cracked spindles that we're blissfully unaware of. Unless you've had yours checked you won't know if they're cracked or not. Most of the cracks I've found are in the places where spindles usually break: in the radius where the inner bearing diameter meets the shoulder. They usually start at the bottom and progress towards the centre of the spindle. After a few more million cycles, another crack starts at the top and also grows towards the centre. When those two cracks meet the wheel falls off. I can't recall ever seeing a Ford spindle break right off but they clearly do get fatigue cracks in them so logic dictates some must fail eventually. Some say cracked steering arms are common but I've only found one cracked.
Torture test? Maybe. Many New Zealand roads in the '30s and '40s were unpaved so perhaps our cars did get a harder time than those in other parts of the world. Has anyone else crack-tested a number of early Ford spindles?
 
V8COOPMAN said:
Funny you should ask.........picture shows Allan's "road conditions and regular driving style". DD

183721
Click to expand...
Thanks V8COOPMAN. I did say I drive my cars hard sometimes and this picture shows one of those times. It might explain why my aftermarket king pin bushes don't last long and even perhaps why spindles crack. What it doesn't explain is why 6 spindles from cars I'd never driven had fatigue cracks. Ali-bronze king pin bushes survive this treatment too.
 
This thread is becoming very informational!!
Thanks everyone for the great info!
Great comparison Randy in cal, thank u.
 
Randy, like the way you compared the two spindle types. Very informative.
 
Last edited:
My bad experience. I have a 35 coupe with 40 brake system which was on car prior. The 35 wire rims hit on the brake drum weights, causing wheel and brake drum to be warped . I had to grind the drum weights down for clearens. And I have the rings also. The vibration was terrible and ruined the brake shoes. I was told you just use the rings and good to go, not on my 35.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top