Hydraulic Brakes vs. Original?

You are restoring a relatively rare car, a 1929 54-A. It will have more value in the long run if it is all stock and truly restored. Real restoration takes a lot of thought, care, time, money and hard work. I wouldn't put all the effort into a real restoration and not put it back as close to factory original as possible. I will assume you're interested in excellence. Otherwise, why bother?

BTW, I have owned over 20 Model A's over a span of 54 years. Some were restored, some were refurbished, and some were unrestored. They all have had mechanical brakes, but the first thing I've done in every case is check the brake system and make corrections and adjustments as necessary. I've probably driven something like 100,000+ miles and never had an accident that was caused by the brakes being mechanical.
 
Willie Krash said:
Someone here in the past has already said it, I've never known mechanical brakes to leak..
I think one of the reasons model A and T have defied time is in its simplicity.
Rubber rots, seals, wheel cylinders etc..
What other car can sit 30+ years and you can start it and run it? And it will stop.
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I really agree with Willie, My stock brakes work perfectly on both my sedan and roadster and I feel very safe my pedal is solid and the car stops perfectly, Juice brake kits I believe come with a single master cylinder and there is no backup if the seal blows you have zero brakes, I like the pedal to the metal aspect of Henry's mechanical brakes :)
 
JUICE BRAKES should be out law'ed. If it aint got mechanicals or air brakes I don't
want it........................................
 
Hyd. brakes were designed for much heavier cars than the A is, that should tell you something. I use silicone fluid and they have never given trouble in the last 57 years. No pulling or fading. I've ridden in cars with mechanicals installed and adjusted by someone that works on A's daily, and swears by mechanicals. They are not near as good as my hydraulics. Mechanicals need to be done VERY RIGHT in order to be good.
 
Jim Brierley said:
Hyd. brakes were designed for much heavier cars than the A is, that should tell you something. I use silicone fluid and they have never given trouble in the last 57 years. No pulling or fading. I've ridden in cars with mechanicals installed and adjusted by someone that works on A's daily, and swears by mechanicals. They are not near as good as my hydraulics. Mechanicals need to be done VERY RIGHT in order to be good.
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Roger on all that.
We are right, the world is all wrong.
 
no offense , but you guys are just blowing smoke . lots of repeats with nothing gained . opinions are like belly buttons , we all have one ! short version , owner preference .................. no cookie cutters here ...............
 
Hey Mr. Texas,
Very well thought out and explained in accurate, practical application terms , IMO!
I will add that I just put an entire Lincoln hydraulic brake system on my '30 roadster.
I debated long and hard whether to do this, as the mechanical system on my A was totally restored with added upgrade of cast drums. All restored or better parts ! Second reason for procrastination was the PRICE ! In the end, I sold my entire mecanicals system to a 'restorer' who was excited to see/get quality system for his project, and I got $ for my project ...quid pro quo :) !
All the talk here about hacking/chopping up brake pedals, battery box , etc, etc...well I had NONE of that. Installation was straight forward and end result is a clean looking/operating system. I asked a lot of questions , prior to making the decision and preforming this installation. Mostly questioned the USE of SYNTHETIC BRAKE FLUID ! Man, did I run the 'gauntlet' of yes/no ! Now, my experience tells me that MOST replies on any subject come from guys who have never been there and/or done that :eek: ! Just parroting what indoctrination that they have encountered on a subject and not qualifying it as such heresy..bummer as this gossip throws a wrench into all, IMO.
Anyway, I opted to use synthetic brake fluid and am happy about that decision...for practical reasons, mostly that that fluid does NOT attract and/or absorb water as 'regular' brake fluid does , especially if it sets in an unused brake system. The water retaining property, which causes rusted and stuck cylinder parts...is the ONLY factual/real gripe that is spot on regarding the use of hydraulic brakes , IMO. Now since this is not the case with synthetic fluid use, I have no qualms with hydraulic system otherwise. Yeah, my A sits unused for long periods of time...as life gets in the way. However, I expect no rusty mess when I do eventually reuse my car.
I've driven for over 50 years and THE one thing that matters to me, is how well does this vehicle stop. Think safety here. You can get a car with a dead engine going down hill , very fast ! But, how well does it stop ? Now throw in an emergency/panic stop....and how well do brakes perform. If you do not consider these things (ostrich syndrome ) , make sure that your car / life insurance is updated when driving a vehicle. Now, the trend is to go faster, if for no other reason, than to keep up with legal limits and to keep from getting run over by 'modern' drivers/vehicles. So, you've hopped up that A with hidden upgrades to make it go real fast :rolleyes: ! How have you compensated for making your brakes to slow the A real fast ?

I've tested out both my braking systems , on the same A. Tried to simulate panic situation and stop. Of course you have an advantage here that you will NOT have in most real life emergency panic stops. How many of you have done this with your driver ...with either system ?

This long winded thread and the many other long winded threads on same subject, IMO, will not sway many one way or other. Yup, 'it was an accident' , not my brakes that got me into this wreck. Safety is paramount and each driver has to contend with results of actions and/or non actions.

Mr. Texas would you happen to have any help/instructions on how you accomplished your disc brake installation on an A :)
 
I was once asked what kind of brakes would be best when one of those jerks in a 'tuner' car weaves through traffic and cuts in front of you. My reply: 12 gauge. Great stopping power.
 
MikeK said:
I was once asked what kind of brakes would be best when one of those jerks in a 'tuner' car weaves through traffic and cuts in front of you. My reply: 12 gauge. Great stopping power.
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10 gauge is even better. Think big.
 
hardtimes said:
Hey Mr. Texas,
Very well thought out and explained in accurate, practical application terms , IMO

Mr. Texas would you happen to have any help/instructions on how you accomplished your disc brake installation on an A :)
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Need 42 square back spindles and can't use wire wheels. Oops just discovered I cut off part of the spring perch on the driver's side to make the discs work. Will be replacing that part to put mechanicals back.

https://sites.google.com/site/mrtexascitrus/home/hydraulicbrakes
 
I have had single line juice brakes on vehicles since the 60's, never had one fail. I did have both lines fail simultaneously in a Plymouth Voyageur when driving into my garage. Very exciting!

IMHO any well installed, maintained brake will work on a light car like a Model A.

Ian
 
hardtimes said:
I've tested out both my braking systems , on the same A. Tried to simulate panic situation and stop. Of course you have an advantage here that you will NOT have in most real life emergency panic stops. How many of you have done this with your driver ...with either system ?
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I live in South Florida I don't have to "simulate", panic stopping. My mechanicals will lock up the wheels.
 
Another vote for mechanicals. They look right, and since I've restored mine properly I can lay down rubber and lock up the wheels in my car.
 
Thanks very much for your insights all! As a new comer to the Model A and to this forum, I really appreciate the insights. I'm going to stick with the mechanical brakes for now and see how things go. Thanks again!
 
Y-Blockhead said:
If the wheels can be locked up with the mechanicals, hydraulics are not going to improve your braking. Once the wheels lock your braking diminishes. The only pro to hydraulic I can see is maybe less effort (and maybe less maintenance?).
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I found the mechanical brakes in my Fordor to be easier to operate than the hydraulic brakes in a friends little MG.

You might think "Yeah, but an MG is not a ford..."

Well, you're correct, however, its a tiny little car and I had to really press the pedal down to stop, whereas my 29' Fordor has very responsive mechanicals.

Regardless, Mechanical brakes have a much smaller chance of leaking fluid...
 
I have no qualms about either system...

However: converting to hydraulic is a lot of work, why not keep it easy and stay mechanical? It's "Normal", so well known, and the parts are standard to replace.

We fitted "Flat Head Teds" brake floaters (Actually, I did the fronts, never got to the backs!) It makes a HUGE difference. Setting up the mechanical brakes is actually pretty easy, but the floaters make it even easier, and more "maintainance free", as the shoes self centre - I didn't even arc the shoes (they were close), but they wore in very quickly with the self centering, both side to side, and up and down.

On the 21" firestones, I can stop our 29 with both fronts locked, fast enough to make myself feel ill. Don't have to push really hard either - probably similar to any unassisted car with a good setup (about the same as my 70's VW Beetle with stock euro disk brakes anyway). I'm sure once I fit the new shoes, and the floaters, all four locked will be easy to acheive too.

Staying mechanical is much less work than setting up all the hydraulics, and still having to do a certain amount of shoe adjusting etc anyway.

I'd only go hydraulic if you were planning DISK brakes, and really good modern tyres.
 
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