'36 steering box - bushes or needle bearings?

Freoway

Freoway

Member
Hi folks. I recently bought myself a '36 Ford roadster (RHD). Very original. Replaced tie rod ends, steering link, pitman arm, etc. and did a wheel alignment.

She still wonders all over the road (I'm used to old cars, but this is more than I imagine should happen). I've pulled out the steering box and opened it up. Before I did, there was longitudinal shaft movement and a little bit of sideways play too.

It's packed with nice clean grease inside. I thought it was meant to have a thick heavy weight oil? It has the factory style needle bearings. I see that later ones have brass bushings which are meant to work better. Is it straight forward to swap out the needle bearings for brass bushes, or does it require some machining?

The worm and sector contact faces all look good. Anything else I should look out for that could cause the 'mind of its own' wondering over the road!

Cheers,

Lloyd
 
Have you checked for the correct amount of tow in on the front tires?

With bias ply tires if you have them towed out at all they will cause the car to want to pull at any inconsistency in the road and seem like you are constantly having to correct.

I loose steering box will amplify this.
 
With grease in the box it is virtually impossible for the needle bearing to get the proper lube, since they are in the sector housing. I believe you could replace the needle bearings with thick wall bushings (something your going to have to have made since the original style bushing will not fit the 36 sector bore. Or the bearings can be replaced and the proper lube used 140W-EP .
 
Hi Lloyd

I believe that there have been many discussions on here about steering box lubes and many varied opinions. Do a SEARCH
Bruce/CT
 
Aftermarket sectors came with bushings, originally needle bearings were used, only for this year, in 37 the roller sector came out, the reduced friction from the roller sector made the extra cost of the needle bearings unnecessary

There are several adjustments for the mesh, if the parts are good you should have less than 1 inch of play at the wheel when it is properly adjusted and centered---as with most steering gears there will be more play off center
 
I am sure you checked the tires for wear and tracking on the rim. you should first follow the steering box adjustment procedure before looking for a 37-37 steering box, most of the time they can be made to work satisfactory. also change out the grease to heavy lube oil
 
Thanks for all your advice. I'll reassemble today with the proper oil and do adjustments as per the book and see what happens.

Cheers, Lloyd
 
Hi Lloyd, are the spring shackles in good nick? Otherwise my personal opinion is that the only way to get them to track straight is to fit Panhard bar to front and back.
 
Tom, Thanks for the info. The spring shackles were rebuilt/resprung back in the 80's - car has had little use since. I'll read over your link later today, but it looks like an interesting approach to improve steering. I'll probably reassemble and see how things go. I'm so keen to get it registered, that I may leave such mod's until later.

Also, I've just bought some 140wt gear oil after reading other posts. Hopefully that will do a better job.

Tom - are there many 30's Fords in the UK?

Cheers, Lloyd
 
Freoway said:
Tom, Thanks for the info. The spring shackles were rebuilt/resprung back in the 80's - car has had little use since. I'll read over your link later today, but it looks like an interesting approach to improve steering. I'll probably reassemble and see how things go. I'm so keen to get it registered, that I may leave such mod's until later.

Also, I've just bought some 140wt gear oil after reading other posts. Hopefully that will do a better job.

Tom - are there many 30's Fords in the UK?

Cheers, Lloyd
Click to expand...

I'm not Tom, but I personally know of quite a few '30's Early V-8 Fords in the UK. I have met some of the guys who own these cars and have ridden in a '36 Roadster and '36 5w coupe in England. Both of these cars had high powered modern engines and the rides were a bit on the wild side on very narrow country roads and through small towns :D
 
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We have an active chapter of the EFV8 club in the UK and there is a good number of nice original cars around, but rodding is very popular and infortunately some nice cars have gone that way. Of course, when you say 30s Fords, some people would assume that means you include the models made purely for Europe, such as the Models Y, C, CX, 7W, 7Y, 62, E93A etc (too many to list), and there are lots of those and several clubs for them. But I've never seen a 36 Roadster here.
 
Tom Walker said:
Heres how I did it, it was a fun project and very easy.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121816&highlight=panhard+bar
Click to expand...

What you did was trying to fix bump steer. The geometry of the front end of the car in that case was ruined by bubba bending the axle to lower the front end. I have personal experience with fixing bump steer. I bought a 49 Ford rod where whoever installed the engine lowered the rack and pinion by 2 inches thereby causing terminal bump steer. Only way to fix that is re-do the engine install correctly. Freoway has your front axle been bent to lower the front end?
 
Hi Lloyd
Thanks to JM and Jembow for chiming in on your question about numbers of 30's Fords over here, cos I'm clueless on that one.
I guess that if you mean V8s then there don't seem to be many, and of those they are mainly Pilots.
Re Mrtexas point that a Panhard bar is only for curing bump steer, I kind of agree and kind of don't. I think the bump steer is caused by the "buggy" sprung axle moving sideways in relation to the chassis. Which steers the car.
If you fit the PB I think you will be amazed by the difference.
Cheers Tom.
 
Tom, that's a neat idea,l
Looks cool too using old parts.
Now here's the but. On your brother's A the spring shackles are to upright, this is a big reason for the wandering. If they are at the proper angle, a panhard rod isn't needed. In this case, the wandering was due to the shackle angle, and was "fixed" by the PR.
Does that make sence? Have a look at a post war Ford V8, long shackles, different angle = need for PR.
Martin.
 
Tom Walker said:
Martin, I know he flattened the front spring to lower the A, is that what you mean?
Click to expand...

Yes bud,
By flattening the front spring, the spring eye to spring eye dimension (measure parallel to the floor) has increased. This has the knock on effect of making the spring shackles more upright.
This allows the The front suspension to move sideways much,much easyer than if the shackles were at 45 degrees.
The more upright the shackles the greater need for something else to prevent the sideways movement.
An alternative to a panhard rod is a dead perch. This was used on some roundy roundy cars. Instead of a shackle at each end of the spring, you had a shackle at one end and just a spring pivot at the other end. Kinda like a rear spring off a parallel leaf car, but sideways. This dead perch prevented the side to side movement, eliminating the need for the panhard rod.
Get it?
Martin.
 
mrtexas said:
What you did was trying to fix bump steer. The geometry of the front end of the car in that case was ruined by bubba bending the axle to lower the front end. I have personal experience with fixing bump steer. I bought a 49 Ford rod where whoever installed the engine lowered the rack and pinion by 2 inches thereby causing terminal bump steer. Only way to fix that is re-do the engine install correctly. Freoway has your front axle been bent to lower the front end?
Click to expand...

Everything is stock standard on my old '36, including the front axle height. I'm adverse to changing anything from the factory spec (save a few minor details, and possibly the tyres).

Cheers, Lloyd
 
scooder said:
Yes bud,
By flattening the front spring, the spring eye to spring eye dimension (measure parallel to the floor) has increased. This has the knock on effect of making the spring shackles more upright.
This allows the The front suspension to move sideways much,much easyer than if the shackles were at 45 degrees.
The more upright the shackles the greater need for something else to prevent the sideways movement.
An alternative to a panhard rod is a dead perch. This was used on some roundy roundy cars. Instead of a shackle at each end of the spring, you had a shackle at one end and just a spring pivot at the other end. Kinda like a rear spring off a parallel leaf car, but sideways. This dead perch prevented the side to side movement, eliminating the need for the panhard rod.
Get it?
Martin.
Click to expand...

I don't have your experience on these front ends, but there's obviously more factors that can cause front end wondering than just toe-in! Given that the front springs have been resprung at some stage, I should probably check the basic heights and angles. Is there a good reference for these specs anywhere?

Cheers, Lloyd
 
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