mhsprecher
Well-known member
Impressive work. Very inspiring. Keep it up. Great that your wife is such an integral part of the project.
1936 Ford Big Truck Project
- Thread starter luisv
- Start date
41panelmark
Well-known member
Welcome to the Barn, nice Tonner.
Integral part.... Ha!....
.... She's the one cracking the whip!All joking aside... It is great. She helps a great deal. She's not afraid to get dirty and does a great deal of the parts finds. Once we get her some sort of reference.... she will turn over every rock to find the stuff! You should see her looking for stuff for "her car"... a 1977 Chevy Corvette we are resto-modding! That's another story all together..
Thanks....
mercman from oz
Well-known member
Keep up the great work. While the attached photo is not a 1936 model, it is very close, being a 1935 model. Different Grille and Hood. With the great effort that you and your wife are putting into this project, your truck will look similar to this one, one day.
Attachments
mercman from oz
Well-known member
Had a bit of a hurdle on the project....
I have been going nuts trying to find 22.5 Wheels for the truck with the 5 bolt on an 8 inch circle. I have tried a couple of sources and have come up short each time... Usually i can get one or two wheels but no more. I finally found a set of 6 and was ready to purchase when the person selling them decided to sell them to a local buyer and left me hanging (long story).... so after trying for a few months, we got fed up and decided that we will be moving to axle swaps.
I have now gotten my hands on the front (solid axle) and rear (dually differential) from a 1999 F450 donor. I can't complain because I got the two axles, the springs, perches, brakes (Disc Brakes all around), six wheels with good tires for $1700. I may not use all this, but I have it to plan with. I would have spent $1500 for 6 of the 5x8 bolt wheels and over $1800 on tires.... being conservative....
Two things as a result of this change....
First... it is going to delay the finish because we now have more work to do...
Second... I have the original mechanical brake setup, rear differential and torque tube, rear wishbone, springs, front axel, spring, steering..... etc. etc. etc. from the Truck that I have to get rid of....
So the point of this is...
Do you all feel I would be able to offer any of this stuff for sale? Would there be anybody interested in all this stuff? I ask because the other option would be to scrap the parts... I WOULD HATE TO DO THAT so i wanted to gauge the sentiment....Is there anybody that would be interested in this stuff?
I have been going nuts trying to find 22.5 Wheels for the truck with the 5 bolt on an 8 inch circle. I have tried a couple of sources and have come up short each time... Usually i can get one or two wheels but no more. I finally found a set of 6 and was ready to purchase when the person selling them decided to sell them to a local buyer and left me hanging (long story).... so after trying for a few months, we got fed up and decided that we will be moving to axle swaps.
I have now gotten my hands on the front (solid axle) and rear (dually differential) from a 1999 F450 donor. I can't complain because I got the two axles, the springs, perches, brakes (Disc Brakes all around), six wheels with good tires for $1700. I may not use all this, but I have it to plan with. I would have spent $1500 for 6 of the 5x8 bolt wheels and over $1800 on tires.... being conservative....
Two things as a result of this change....
First... it is going to delay the finish because we now have more work to do...
Second... I have the original mechanical brake setup, rear differential and torque tube, rear wishbone, springs, front axel, spring, steering..... etc. etc. etc. from the Truck that I have to get rid of....
So the point of this is...
Do you all feel I would be able to offer any of this stuff for sale? Would there be anybody interested in all this stuff? I ask because the other option would be to scrap the parts... I WOULD HATE TO DO THAT so i wanted to gauge the sentiment....Is there anybody that would be interested in this stuff?
41panelmark
Well-known member
It cant hurt to try to list it on the Barn and other sites. Agreed the earlier brake set up may not appeal to most, other parts may help someone restoring a project.
Well.... The situation on the parts just got worse. It seems somebody placed an anonymous call into our local county office that I was "performing mechanics work" out of my home. The call also states that I was bringing "customers" in and doing work at my home. Totally a complete lie as I am only working on my truck. Anyway... the county gave me a warning and told me that I had to cease working on the truck and it had to be gone from the driveway by Tuesday.
To not turn this into a 20 page discourse.... I was always very respectful of my neighbors and area. I never worked on the car during the week. I never started to work on the car before 10:00AM and was always done by 6:00PM. When the truck was not worked on, the car was covered and the entire area was cleaned and cleared away. Basically, all that was left was a covered pickup. NOW...... I cleared it from my driveway in 8 hours and simply put it into my garage, on my lift, where I will work on it whenever I please and the anonymous tipster can kiss my _______.
However.... on the parts... which is what I am most concerned about and what I feel worst about are the parts that we will not be using now. The differential, front axle, mechanical brakes, linkages, drums, ect. Since I cannot keep all of that in the garage.... it will have to be taken to the scrap yard. I will try to put some of the smaller items in a shed I have, but whatever does not fit.... or is too heavy to move, will have to be taken to a scrap yard to be destroyed.
You have no idea how bad I feel about that! I so wish I could have a couple of weeks of months to find if somebody could use these items. It is a crime.
To not turn this into a 20 page discourse.... I was always very respectful of my neighbors and area. I never worked on the car during the week. I never started to work on the car before 10:00AM and was always done by 6:00PM. When the truck was not worked on, the car was covered and the entire area was cleaned and cleared away. Basically, all that was left was a covered pickup. NOW...... I cleared it from my driveway in 8 hours and simply put it into my garage, on my lift, where I will work on it whenever I please and the anonymous tipster can kiss my _______.
However.... on the parts... which is what I am most concerned about and what I feel worst about are the parts that we will not be using now. The differential, front axle, mechanical brakes, linkages, drums, ect. Since I cannot keep all of that in the garage.... it will have to be taken to the scrap yard. I will try to put some of the smaller items in a shed I have, but whatever does not fit.... or is too heavy to move, will have to be taken to a scrap yard to be destroyed.
You have no idea how bad I feel about that! I so wish I could have a couple of weeks of months to find if somebody could use these items. It is a crime.
OK.... now that I am done with the soap box speech.... back to the fun stuff! The work on the truck that will be completed despite the setback.
Here is what was recently done...
Doors...
So the lower section of the doors where in bad shape. The lower 4 inches of the door had bad rust on both the skin and inner frame. So to resolve that I got replacement lower inner panels and lower outer skins. The parts came from Bob Drake and they are excellent. Fit was great. I had to trim some, details below, but other than that, awesome.
In my excitement to get the work done, I forgot to take shots of the outer door skin replacement. What I can do is show is some shots of the done door and describe the process.
The out skins are the first to be done. The reason is that the lip (pre-stamped/bent on the part) determines the lower portion of the door. That means that it has to be EXACTLY where the original door was so that it fills the gap correctly. The best way to do this is to place reference points on the door. In my case I measured 12 inches up from the bottom of the door up at two places and placed the tape edge there. Notice it is higher than the panel and it is not the cut line. The idea is to place the panel in so that the bottom edge is EXACTLY 12 inches (in my case) from the reference point.
Once I have the reference marks, I can overlay the panel to roughly determine the cut line. With that I can then remove/open the lower lip of the original door skin. I personally cut the lip out to allow me to overlay the new skin without interference. I get a much better cut line. I line up the new door skin precisely, using the reference marks, and then mark the final cut line.
Once I am done with that, I cut the old skin out. Once that is out, I place the new skin in, grinding the panel and/or the original until I get a PERFECT fit and the reference marks are DEAD ON. Once I am satisfied with the position, I begin to spot weld the panel on. I move from end to end, back and forth, so as to not warp the panel. As always... hammer and dolly... grind.... continue welding.... repeat... repeat... repeat... until the panel is on.
Now we flip over to do the inner frame panel. Here I took photos... ;-)
Here is the lower door on the inside. You can see the rust has completely destroyed the panel.
Now the process of marking the panels, both old and new, to figure out where the new panel will end up. The first step is to lay the new inner panel over the old panel to mark and trim the lip of the inner panel. You will have to trim the part so it drops into. Once that is done, the panel should lay right over the old and you can start marking the cut line of the old panel to get it out.
The door hinges on the Ford Big Truck are riveted in place. They are mounted to an inner structural brace/beam/corner. The panel I am placing will go over that. In my case, that brace is strong and just has some surface rust over it. I did not want to have to remove and replace the hinge, so I will cut my panel around that. Ultimately the panel will be welded to the inner post making it stronger.
You then mark the rest of the cut line with the new panel and remove that old rusty panel. you will be left with the door looking like this, more or less.
The new panel needs some cutting as well to make it around the hinges.
Here is what was recently done...
Doors...
So the lower section of the doors where in bad shape. The lower 4 inches of the door had bad rust on both the skin and inner frame. So to resolve that I got replacement lower inner panels and lower outer skins. The parts came from Bob Drake and they are excellent. Fit was great. I had to trim some, details below, but other than that, awesome.
In my excitement to get the work done, I forgot to take shots of the outer door skin replacement. What I can do is show is some shots of the done door and describe the process.
The out skins are the first to be done. The reason is that the lip (pre-stamped/bent on the part) determines the lower portion of the door. That means that it has to be EXACTLY where the original door was so that it fills the gap correctly. The best way to do this is to place reference points on the door. In my case I measured 12 inches up from the bottom of the door up at two places and placed the tape edge there. Notice it is higher than the panel and it is not the cut line. The idea is to place the panel in so that the bottom edge is EXACTLY 12 inches (in my case) from the reference point.
Once I have the reference marks, I can overlay the panel to roughly determine the cut line. With that I can then remove/open the lower lip of the original door skin. I personally cut the lip out to allow me to overlay the new skin without interference. I get a much better cut line. I line up the new door skin precisely, using the reference marks, and then mark the final cut line.
Once I am done with that, I cut the old skin out. Once that is out, I place the new skin in, grinding the panel and/or the original until I get a PERFECT fit and the reference marks are DEAD ON. Once I am satisfied with the position, I begin to spot weld the panel on. I move from end to end, back and forth, so as to not warp the panel. As always... hammer and dolly... grind.... continue welding.... repeat... repeat... repeat... until the panel is on.
Now we flip over to do the inner frame panel. Here I took photos... ;-)
Here is the lower door on the inside. You can see the rust has completely destroyed the panel.
Now the process of marking the panels, both old and new, to figure out where the new panel will end up. The first step is to lay the new inner panel over the old panel to mark and trim the lip of the inner panel. You will have to trim the part so it drops into. Once that is done, the panel should lay right over the old and you can start marking the cut line of the old panel to get it out.
The door hinges on the Ford Big Truck are riveted in place. They are mounted to an inner structural brace/beam/corner. The panel I am placing will go over that. In my case, that brace is strong and just has some surface rust over it. I did not want to have to remove and replace the hinge, so I will cut my panel around that. Ultimately the panel will be welded to the inner post making it stronger.
You then mark the rest of the cut line with the new panel and remove that old rusty panel. you will be left with the door looking like this, more or less.
The new panel needs some cutting as well to make it around the hinges.
We continue working, grinding, banging, etc. until we get a perfect fit on the inner panel. Here is what I end up with.
The hinge location
I then tack a few spots moving around the panel to set the location.
Once that is in place, I continue to spot weld, jumping around to avoid warping. I bend, and shape as I go.
Ultimately, once all the welds are filled and it is ground down.... you should look like this.
If you are sharp, you noticed the lip is down and folded over in the shots above. That I did as I went. It is not easy but with the right patience, hammer and dolly... you lay it down flat. I made some holes in the lip which then get spot welds in place making sure that lip does not move.
Once done.... It fits perfectly.... if I do say so myself...
The hinge location
I then tack a few spots moving around the panel to set the location.
Once that is in place, I continue to spot weld, jumping around to avoid warping. I bend, and shape as I go.
Ultimately, once all the welds are filled and it is ground down.... you should look like this.
If you are sharp, you noticed the lip is down and folded over in the shots above. That I did as I went. It is not easy but with the right patience, hammer and dolly... you lay it down flat. I made some holes in the lip which then get spot welds in place making sure that lip does not move.
Once done.... It fits perfectly.... if I do say so myself...
Sixseven
Well-known member
Do you have some sort of ordinance that prohibits you from working on personal projects outside of your garage or house? If the complaint was that you are working a business out of your house, I get it. That is not legal in most urban communities, and that appears to be what you said was reported. A separate issue that is less clear is working on your truck outdoors. You may have a neighbor that wants what he/she considers to be a mess cleaned up. Before you go tossing good parts into the scrap yard, I would examine any local ordinances for outdoor storage rules. I hate to see you get bound up in this.
I'm always concerned that the pumping noise from my compressor or high pitch whir from impact wrenches will upset the neighbors. I will also have the same concern when I get to the point you are with welding and hammering body panels - even inside my garage. Good luck with this neighbor, there is nothing worse than a bad neighbor.
I'm always concerned that the pumping noise from my compressor or high pitch whir from impact wrenches will upset the neighbors. I will also have the same concern when I get to the point you are with welding and hammering body panels - even inside my garage. Good luck with this neighbor, there is nothing worse than a bad neighbor.
Well.... what I decided to do was move my project indoors. I have yet to hear the complaint. The only thing I was told was that an "anonymous" caller placed a complaint that I was "doing auto repairs and that I was working on other people's cars."
The issue is that I have never done anything of the sort. I work on my cars... that's it. What I have been doing is being as thoughtful as possible with my neighbors. I would never start working before 10:00AM and would always finish by 6:00PM. I would also cover the project every day. I would only ever work on weekends. When working, we would put up a 12'x12' tent with sides... basically you could not see me working.
In the end.... I refuse to be put down and/or to scrap what I know could be useful to others. Especially with a vintage car like this. What I have done is move the indoors. I have a lift in the garage and basically moved it all inside there. I no can work on the car when I please and nobody can be bothered and/or see anything. I disassembled everything and stored the parts I am not working on in the shed out back. In short, not a damned thing can be seen or heard. Since the garage has A/C and the compressor is indoors.... nothing can be a problem. It's a tight fit and not the most comfortable of spaces.... but it works.
The actual code states that I can only work on my own cars and all repairs must be finished in 72 hours or less. There are more details, but that's the general concept. In short, they kill any long term project possibility. I understand the premise behind it.... not everybody is as considerate as we were and may do all sorts of crap in the yards.... but to be honest.... I was less of a nuisance than a few of my neighbors are with football weekends and cars parked all over the place and the middle school parents parking 8 cars deep up my block waiting to pick up the kids and simply parking in the street to wait.
I will not get pay back and/or make more noise to bother people... but I will finish the project, in my home.... with my hands...
So.... what has been happening.
Originally I planned to keep things relatively original. Plan was to keep the original trans, rear end, front axle and suspension, steering and brakes. The only thing I really wanted to update where the wheels.
I started looking for 22.5" tubeless wheels with the 5 bolt on the 8" circle. I was looking for 6 of them to keep the dually setup. I had finally found six of them from a seller in Utah. Unfortunately, he decided to sell them to a local buyer after, pretty much, confirming the sale to me. Now we were back to square one.... no wheels.
So after getting tired of looking for a 5x8 bolt pattern wheels, we decided to go to a new axle swap. This will give me a few things... easy to find wheels, 14" disc brakes all around and a truck capable of more than 40 MPH. Since we went to new axles.... we decided to do a T5 swap also.
The donor:
1999 F450 2WD Dually. Front axle is a solid front axle with 14" disc brakes. The rear axle is a dually with 14" brakes as well. This is a very stout setup. Rear axle leaf springs are set wide enough to fit outside the 1936 truck frame. All I have to do is setup the new mounts.
The transmission is T5 from a 1984 Chevy S10 pickup. It has a 4.03 1st gear and a .76 overdrive. I already have the Offenhauser T5 adapter, a new clutch kit and pilot bearing, and a few other odds and ends. I should be mocking up the setup by next week.
This weekend I took off the old axles and remaining parts from frame. I removed the old leaf mounts and cleaned off the remaining frame rails on the chassis. Plan is to paint the frame this week.....
I'll be putting up some photos of the brakes, differential, ect.... I am doing that to see if anybody may be interested in the parts.
I will also put up some more updated photos of the progress.....
Stay tuned.....
Originally I planned to keep things relatively original. Plan was to keep the original trans, rear end, front axle and suspension, steering and brakes. The only thing I really wanted to update where the wheels.
I started looking for 22.5" tubeless wheels with the 5 bolt on the 8" circle. I was looking for 6 of them to keep the dually setup. I had finally found six of them from a seller in Utah. Unfortunately, he decided to sell them to a local buyer after, pretty much, confirming the sale to me. Now we were back to square one.... no wheels.
So after getting tired of looking for a 5x8 bolt pattern wheels, we decided to go to a new axle swap. This will give me a few things... easy to find wheels, 14" disc brakes all around and a truck capable of more than 40 MPH. Since we went to new axles.... we decided to do a T5 swap also.
The donor:
1999 F450 2WD Dually. Front axle is a solid front axle with 14" disc brakes. The rear axle is a dually with 14" brakes as well. This is a very stout setup. Rear axle leaf springs are set wide enough to fit outside the 1936 truck frame. All I have to do is setup the new mounts.
The transmission is T5 from a 1984 Chevy S10 pickup. It has a 4.03 1st gear and a .76 overdrive. I already have the Offenhauser T5 adapter, a new clutch kit and pilot bearing, and a few other odds and ends. I should be mocking up the setup by next week.
This weekend I took off the old axles and remaining parts from frame. I removed the old leaf mounts and cleaned off the remaining frame rails on the chassis. Plan is to paint the frame this week.....
I'll be putting up some photos of the brakes, differential, ect.... I am doing that to see if anybody may be interested in the parts.
I will also put up some more updated photos of the progress.....
Stay tuned.....
I finally got some time to get an update up for the forum.
As I mentioned in the last post, the decision was made to go for an axle swap and a T5 Conversion. Last week I took off the leaf hangers and finished cleaning off the frame so we can paint. On that note... HOLY CRAP THOSE RIVETS ARE A PAIN. It took me 4 hours to cut and remove all 38 rivets that hold the hangers and soft spring supports. Wow...
Back to what we did this weekend that just passed. The goal was to mock up the transmission and engine, mount it in place in the frame and make the transmission support crossmember.
To get the transmission mounted we had to make a couple of decisions. Specifically what to do about the clutch and pressure plate. Also, what we would do about the clutch throwout. What we decided to do was to go with a diaphragm pressure plate and to use the ford manual fork setup. To do that these are the parts we went with.
The basic parts list was as follows.
- 10.5" pressure plate. This came from clutch kit for a 1990 Chevrolet small block Camaro clutch kit. This was cheaper than buying just the pressure plate from somebody like Speedway.
- 10.5" clutch (friction) disc to match the pressure plate with a 1", 14 spline hub to match the transmission. When we did some digging we found that certain Jeep Wranglers used this clutch. So we got the following: McLeod Racing Clutch sold by Advance Adapters under part number 716194.
- Steel flywheel for the 8BA flathead that is drilled for a variety of pressure plate options.
- Pilot bearing for the flywheel. I preferred that over the bushing that comes in most kits and I also wanted to avoid a spacer bushing. The bearing we used is a LR202NPP. This is a 15mm inner diameter, 40mm outer diameter, 11mm thick bearing.
- 1" 14 spline alignment tool. Advanced auto had them for a 1984 Chevy S10 pickup. It was $5
- ARP bolts for the flywheel and pressure plate.
We start the process of mocking up the system by putting in the flywheel.
In case I decide to take the truck on the drag strip.... LOL... I am set
I then dropped in the bearing. Could have done it on the bench first... but I like to make my life harder. This is the pilot bearing in place.
Once that is in there we had to check for clearance with the engines bolt on bell housing. To do it I bolted the pressure plate in alone and checked.
Once it was in I pulled the plugs and turned the engine over a couple of turns to make certain everything clears. Below is the closest the pressure plate comes to the bell housing. The clearance is just shy of 1/4" so we are more than fine.
As I mentioned in the last post, the decision was made to go for an axle swap and a T5 Conversion. Last week I took off the leaf hangers and finished cleaning off the frame so we can paint. On that note... HOLY CRAP THOSE RIVETS ARE A PAIN. It took me 4 hours to cut and remove all 38 rivets that hold the hangers and soft spring supports. Wow...
Back to what we did this weekend that just passed. The goal was to mock up the transmission and engine, mount it in place in the frame and make the transmission support crossmember.
To get the transmission mounted we had to make a couple of decisions. Specifically what to do about the clutch and pressure plate. Also, what we would do about the clutch throwout. What we decided to do was to go with a diaphragm pressure plate and to use the ford manual fork setup. To do that these are the parts we went with.
The basic parts list was as follows.
- 10.5" pressure plate. This came from clutch kit for a 1990 Chevrolet small block Camaro clutch kit. This was cheaper than buying just the pressure plate from somebody like Speedway.
- 10.5" clutch (friction) disc to match the pressure plate with a 1", 14 spline hub to match the transmission. When we did some digging we found that certain Jeep Wranglers used this clutch. So we got the following: McLeod Racing Clutch sold by Advance Adapters under part number 716194.
- Steel flywheel for the 8BA flathead that is drilled for a variety of pressure plate options.
- Pilot bearing for the flywheel. I preferred that over the bushing that comes in most kits and I also wanted to avoid a spacer bushing. The bearing we used is a LR202NPP. This is a 15mm inner diameter, 40mm outer diameter, 11mm thick bearing.
- 1" 14 spline alignment tool. Advanced auto had them for a 1984 Chevy S10 pickup. It was $5
- ARP bolts for the flywheel and pressure plate.
We start the process of mocking up the system by putting in the flywheel.
In case I decide to take the truck on the drag strip.... LOL... I am set
I then dropped in the bearing. Could have done it on the bench first... but I like to make my life harder. This is the pilot bearing in place.
Once that is in there we had to check for clearance with the engines bolt on bell housing. To do it I bolted the pressure plate in alone and checked.
Once it was in I pulled the plugs and turned the engine over a couple of turns to make certain everything clears. Below is the closest the pressure plate comes to the bell housing. The clearance is just shy of 1/4" so we are more than fine.
Now I pull off the housing and pressure plate. Now that I know it clears the pressure plate I can put in the clutch. On that one, we want to check for clearance with the center depression in the flywheel. I knew it would not be a problem with the clutch disc because the flywheel side is dead flat on this clutch. It is not always the case, sometimes the rivets and/or springs on the center of some of them protrude above the friction material on the flywheel side. We tested anyway.
Below are the shots of the clutch from the edge so you can see the center rides below the friction. I took the two shots at a slight angle difference so you see what I am looking at.
Basically the hub on the flywheel side is dead flat and below the friction material so it cannot hit the flywheel anywhere.
Once that is confirmed I get the alignment tool, position the clutch and pressure plate and bolt it all in place on the flywheel.
Next we turn out attention to the Offenhauser T5 adapter. We got the unit that will use the Ford fork to push the thrust bearing. The adapter has to be clearanced for the starter gear cap on the flathead bell housing. Here is the shot of what has to be cleared.
On the T5 itself, I had to remove the old bell housing on it so we can bolt in the Offenhauser adapter. Once the GM housing is removed, you have to drill the tabs on the transmission to 1/2 so that the 1/2 bolts we will be using can fit through. The S10 trans used metric bolts that are just a touch smaller.
Once that is done, we can bolt on the adapter to the transmission.
Below are the shots of the clutch from the edge so you can see the center rides below the friction. I took the two shots at a slight angle difference so you see what I am looking at.
Basically the hub on the flywheel side is dead flat and below the friction material so it cannot hit the flywheel anywhere.
Once that is confirmed I get the alignment tool, position the clutch and pressure plate and bolt it all in place on the flywheel.
Next we turn out attention to the Offenhauser T5 adapter. We got the unit that will use the Ford fork to push the thrust bearing. The adapter has to be clearanced for the starter gear cap on the flathead bell housing. Here is the shot of what has to be cleared.
On the T5 itself, I had to remove the old bell housing on it so we can bolt in the Offenhauser adapter. Once the GM housing is removed, you have to drill the tabs on the transmission to 1/2 so that the 1/2 bolts we will be using can fit through. The S10 trans used metric bolts that are just a touch smaller.
Once that is done, we can bolt on the adapter to the transmission.
Next the Ford clutch fork.....
The throwout bearing on the original Ford throwout bearing is larger than the GM version we will use with the diaphragm pressure plate. If you just put in the ford fork, the fork will not be able to push and pull the bearing. What has to be done is to add a pair of "pins" to the Ford fork and you can use it. Here is what I did.
We take the Ford fork and clean the hell out of it. We grind down the casting a bit to get to clean metal. Once there, i determine the position the pins need to be in so as to be centered on the throwout bearing correctly. How I did it... I put the bearing on the transmission shaft and scientifically "eyeballed it". ;-) Once I marked where the pins needed to be I cut a piece of bar stock out that was just wide enough to fill the gap. I cut it long and then ground the ends until I got the perfect fit. I beveled the edges and the edges on the fork and welded the bar in place.
I went with welding in the bar to assure the pins I would eventually leave would be aligned. It was a great suggestion by a consultant helping us out. Worked perfectly.
Once the bar is welded in there I started to clean the part up. Grind the welds down, polish check and repeat. Once the bulk of the cleaning was done, I cut the center of the bar out to create the pins.
I kept cleaning and polishing up until the bearing moved completely freely in the new fork.
Once the fork is done I placed it on the actuator rod and then placed the throw out bearing in place on the transmission. Once there we aligned everything and bolted it all up.
The throwout bearing on the original Ford throwout bearing is larger than the GM version we will use with the diaphragm pressure plate. If you just put in the ford fork, the fork will not be able to push and pull the bearing. What has to be done is to add a pair of "pins" to the Ford fork and you can use it. Here is what I did.
We take the Ford fork and clean the hell out of it. We grind down the casting a bit to get to clean metal. Once there, i determine the position the pins need to be in so as to be centered on the throwout bearing correctly. How I did it... I put the bearing on the transmission shaft and scientifically "eyeballed it". ;-) Once I marked where the pins needed to be I cut a piece of bar stock out that was just wide enough to fill the gap. I cut it long and then ground the ends until I got the perfect fit. I beveled the edges and the edges on the fork and welded the bar in place.
I went with welding in the bar to assure the pins I would eventually leave would be aligned. It was a great suggestion by a consultant helping us out. Worked perfectly.
Once the bar is welded in there I started to clean the part up. Grind the welds down, polish check and repeat. Once the bulk of the cleaning was done, I cut the center of the bar out to create the pins.
I kept cleaning and polishing up until the bearing moved completely freely in the new fork.
Once the fork is done I placed it on the actuator rod and then placed the throw out bearing in place on the transmission. Once there we aligned everything and bolted it all up.
Time to make some cuts in the frame crossmember where the pedals are mounted. The transmission tail shaft cannot clear the crossmember so we cut out the center section to give us the space we needed. Once that is cut... we throw in the engine and transmission unit.
The front of the engine with the correct pumps (had the car pumps on there before) and motor biscuits.
finally from above....
This gives us a rough estimate of where the transmission and engine mounts. Next was to make the crossmember. To do that we had to set the engine at the correct angle. The target was to get the carburetor plate level when the truck was at the rake/angle it would be at when the suspension is at ride height with the truck unloaded. We figured that would be 1.5 degrees of rake with the rear higher. To make life easy we set the truck on the lift with the 1.5 degree rake and then simply set the carburetor plate level. We did it by holding the tail of the transmission at a set place with a jack stand. We then raise and lower the lift to get it right.
Once there I make the crossmember out of boxed 1x3 bar. I simply welded a U-Shaped crossmember and drilled the holes out for the transmission mount. To clear the shifter we cut the top of the crossmember enough to clear it.
with the transmission in 3rd gear....
The crossmember for the trans mount.
Here is the close shot of the mount position from below.
The front of the engine with the correct pumps (had the car pumps on there before) and motor biscuits.
finally from above....
This gives us a rough estimate of where the transmission and engine mounts. Next was to make the crossmember. To do that we had to set the engine at the correct angle. The target was to get the carburetor plate level when the truck was at the rake/angle it would be at when the suspension is at ride height with the truck unloaded. We figured that would be 1.5 degrees of rake with the rear higher. To make life easy we set the truck on the lift with the 1.5 degree rake and then simply set the carburetor plate level. We did it by holding the tail of the transmission at a set place with a jack stand. We then raise and lower the lift to get it right.
Once there I make the crossmember out of boxed 1x3 bar. I simply welded a U-Shaped crossmember and drilled the holes out for the transmission mount. To clear the shifter we cut the top of the crossmember enough to clear it.
with the transmission in 3rd gear....
The crossmember for the trans mount.
Here is the close shot of the mount position from below.
Finally an update....I had done this work a while back but noticed I had been a bad boy and not posted the work here on the Barn. These were done back during the spring and summer. I simply copied it over.
*************
I have done some things over the past few weeks but March through May are tough in terms of family birthdays, events & holidays. So now that it's all behind us, here are some things I did on the truck.*
*
Now that the basic drivetrain mock up is done, it is time to move on to getting the axles in place. The plan was to get the front axle on and then let that set our rear axle to the right ride height to attain the rake we wanted which was 1.5 degrees.*
*
As a reminder, we went with the front and rear axles off of an F450 truck. This gave us a sold front axle and a dually rear, all on disc brakes. The front axle was going to mounted up with a 4 link suspension. The geometry of the four links will keep the axle centered and will also keep the caster angle fixed through the suspension travel. The design, mostly Myron's (a consultant of mine and good friend from a local car club) configuration, gives us two arms per side, one upper pair angled outward from the truck's frame and one lower pair angled inward from the trucks frame. This gives us two triangles (the axle itself is one side) that keep the axle in place.
*
The arms themselves, are made from the truck's original suspension setup. We wanted to use anything we could from the original truck so we felt using the original wishbone arms as out new four link arms was going to be cool. I did the fab work and setup 4 arms. The fab work entailed getting the Currie Johnny Joints onto the arms. Johnny Joints gives us articulation in any direction. We are limited to 30 degrees of angular travel and any travel we want around the bolt axis. We will need nowhere near that, but it can handle it. The joints have poly bushings inside so they are smooth as glass. Each arm has a fixed joint on one end and an adjustable joint on the other. Doing this gives us a wide range of adjustment. We can adjust the axle up and back, adjust caster and precision adjustment of the centering. Here are a couple of shots on the upper arms showing you the joints.*
*
*
the whole arm when I was setting up to position the perches.*
*
*
The is a better shot of the fixed end.*
*
*
First thing I did was to grind off all the old perches from the F450 front axle except for one. That one perch would give me the starting point for the new perches in terms of angle on the axle. They have to be welded fairly precisely in place to make sure the perches where perpendicular to the "kingpin". In short, so a level perch would provide zero caster. We wanted to get the upper and outboard perches out as far as we could so I lined everything up to see how far we could go and still give me the room needed to weld all around it. We basically placed the fabricated arm in place and lined everything up to get the angle we wanted and keeping the joints "neutral" (in other words so the bolt is perpendicular to the arm. Below is the shot of how it lined up.*
*
*
Once we had the arm in line, I made the frame bracket. I tack welded angle iron to the bracket and that bolts to the frame rail. I mirrored the upper brackets exactly and mounted them. You can see the tacked brackets in place at the frame. It's bolted to the frame in that shot as opposed to Myron holding it in the previous shots. Once that end was fixed in place, the perch was then welded based on the factory perch I had left on there to give me the reference. That is done with a pair of angle gauges (Myron suggestion that worked freaking perfectly). Below is a shot of the general idea. You set one on the original perch and the other you use to position the perch you are welding. When the angle matches, you are golden.*
*
*************
I have done some things over the past few weeks but March through May are tough in terms of family birthdays, events & holidays. So now that it's all behind us, here are some things I did on the truck.*
*
Now that the basic drivetrain mock up is done, it is time to move on to getting the axles in place. The plan was to get the front axle on and then let that set our rear axle to the right ride height to attain the rake we wanted which was 1.5 degrees.*
*
As a reminder, we went with the front and rear axles off of an F450 truck. This gave us a sold front axle and a dually rear, all on disc brakes. The front axle was going to mounted up with a 4 link suspension. The geometry of the four links will keep the axle centered and will also keep the caster angle fixed through the suspension travel. The design, mostly Myron's (a consultant of mine and good friend from a local car club) configuration, gives us two arms per side, one upper pair angled outward from the truck's frame and one lower pair angled inward from the trucks frame. This gives us two triangles (the axle itself is one side) that keep the axle in place.
*
The arms themselves, are made from the truck's original suspension setup. We wanted to use anything we could from the original truck so we felt using the original wishbone arms as out new four link arms was going to be cool. I did the fab work and setup 4 arms. The fab work entailed getting the Currie Johnny Joints onto the arms. Johnny Joints gives us articulation in any direction. We are limited to 30 degrees of angular travel and any travel we want around the bolt axis. We will need nowhere near that, but it can handle it. The joints have poly bushings inside so they are smooth as glass. Each arm has a fixed joint on one end and an adjustable joint on the other. Doing this gives us a wide range of adjustment. We can adjust the axle up and back, adjust caster and precision adjustment of the centering. Here are a couple of shots on the upper arms showing you the joints.*
*
*
the whole arm when I was setting up to position the perches.*
*
*
The is a better shot of the fixed end.*
*
*
First thing I did was to grind off all the old perches from the F450 front axle except for one. That one perch would give me the starting point for the new perches in terms of angle on the axle. They have to be welded fairly precisely in place to make sure the perches where perpendicular to the "kingpin". In short, so a level perch would provide zero caster. We wanted to get the upper and outboard perches out as far as we could so I lined everything up to see how far we could go and still give me the room needed to weld all around it. We basically placed the fabricated arm in place and lined everything up to get the angle we wanted and keeping the joints "neutral" (in other words so the bolt is perpendicular to the arm. Below is the shot of how it lined up.*
*
*
Once we had the arm in line, I made the frame bracket. I tack welded angle iron to the bracket and that bolts to the frame rail. I mirrored the upper brackets exactly and mounted them. You can see the tacked brackets in place at the frame. It's bolted to the frame in that shot as opposed to Myron holding it in the previous shots. Once that end was fixed in place, the perch was then welded based on the factory perch I had left on there to give me the reference. That is done with a pair of angle gauges (Myron suggestion that worked freaking perfectly). Below is a shot of the general idea. You set one on the original perch and the other you use to position the perch you are welding. When the angle matches, you are golden.*
*
So, back to the outer perches. Once I got the position in terms of distance outward on the axle, I set the perches to match the factory perch I later removed and welded the tow upper/puter perches in place. Here are some shots of the final welded perches. Not too shabby a job if I do say so myself! *lol.
*
*
*
*
Now that the outer perches are done, the next thing to do was to place the lower inner perches. That was done in a similar way to the uppers. I set the arms in place to line up the way we needed them and set the brackets up. Once we determined the distance from the already welded outer perches, it is time to weld. The angles, again, were done with the gauges to make sure I am dead on with the positions on the axle. In short the lower perches had to be 180 degrees exactly from the uppers. Here are a few shots to show you how I set it all up.
*
]
*
A closer shot to make sure you can see the amazing accuracy.... lol
*
*
*
*
*
Now that the outer perches are done, the next thing to do was to place the lower inner perches. That was done in a similar way to the uppers. I set the arms in place to line up the way we needed them and set the brackets up. Once we determined the distance from the already welded outer perches, it is time to weld. The angles, again, were done with the gauges to make sure I am dead on with the positions on the axle. In short the lower perches had to be 180 degrees exactly from the uppers. Here are a few shots to show you how I set it all up.
*
*
A closer shot to make sure you can see the amazing accuracy.... lol
*