Transmission "strength?"

PeteVS

PeteVS

Well-known member
I know that if you're a really cool dude, you gotta have a "78" case, latest blocker synchros and the double detent shifter housing, and lest we forget, a set of Zephyr gears. But, if you're building a light car to drive and not race, with a mild engine, will a set of older gears, in an older case, with an older shifter top cut the mustard. Is there any down side to the set up I'm talking about other than it isn't really that cool? Should the gears handle the same torque as the hot set up? Will it shift OK? I know it will whine in first and reverse (non-helical.) Thanks for your comments!!
 
PeteVS said:
I know that if you're a really cool dude, you gotta have a "78" case, latest blocker synchros and the double detent shifter housing, and lest we forget, a set of Zephyr gears. But, if you're building a light car to drive and not race, with a mild engine, will a set of older gears, in an older case, with an older shifter top cut the mustard. Is there any down side to the set up I'm talking about other than it isn't really that cool? Should the gears handle the same torque as the hot set up? Will it shift OK? I know it will whine in first and reverse (non-helical.) Thanks for your comments!!
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The earlier Boxes will shift just fine if the syncros are good. The gears probably are just about the same strength as the later gears. The case is not quit as strong especially in the front. They are a little more prone to cracking between the front counter shaft hole and the imput shaft (Main Drive Gear) bearing bore. In the later cases, they moved the oil return hole to one side to add a little more material in this location.

If you do not abuse it or run a lot of torque thru it, the earlier Transmission should be just fine.

just my opinion,

Chris
 
Actually, I believe spur gears [straight cut] are actually stronger than helical, the reason they went to helical cut gears throughout was for quieter operation. I run and have run original transmission in my 35 for the last 30 odd years, and haven't exactly been too gentle on the old girl either. Done probably a million miles; admittedly I have rebuilt the trans about three times during that time. In my opinion, you'll get a good run outta your early transmission, the later trans shifts nicer, but, hey, most of your driving is in top gear anyway. You'll find parts are cheaper too, because the later parts, being more popular, are more in demand. Brian
 
So many 'old wives tales' when we're talking old Fords. In my opinion the 'strongest' case is not the '78' it is the floor shift case as furnished in the 40's open drive pickups with a 3 speed. These particular cases are actually reinforced at the front more than the regular 78's. So... for real 'bragging rights' you'll need one of those.. My opinion, Brian
 
Thanks guys!!

You made me feel good about my decision to go with the older box. I have a couple of "78" cases, but I'll have to dig them out and all the parts that are hidden away, etc. The early case I'm using ('til I get a later one done) doesn't even need bushings for the clutch shaft. The gears are beautiful, roller bearings are tight, snout on main drive gear is really nice.
 
Pete,
Be sure to check the condition of the cluster gear thrust faces in the CASE....
especially at the rear. 18 and 48 series cases are usually ok but it's good insurance.
.008 clearance between the faces and the cluster is ideal.
Charlie ny
 
Brian said:
So many 'old wives tales' when we're talking old Fords. In my opinion the 'strongest' case is not the '78' it is the floor shift case as furnished in the 40's open drive pickups with a 3 speed. These particular cases are actually reinforced at the front more than the regular 78's. So... for real 'bragging rights' you'll need one of those.. My opinion, Brian
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Question?

Did not the Open Drive Top Shift Pick-Up use a 78- Case? There are more one versions of the 78- Case. The one that is considered the strongest is the one with the full lingth rib on the bottom of the case.

Chris.
 
How Strong?? I put an 1949 Olds 88 in my 34 coupe in 1950. It took the teeth off the cluster every time I "hit" 2nd, it took them off like you put it in a lathe. 3 transmissions in 2 days. In those days we could change a transmission in about 1/2 hour. I put a Lasalle trans in and no more problem. G.M.
 
In 1959-60 I had a 34 Ford PU with a 55 Chev. engine, pop up pistons Duntov 56 Vette cam 2, 4's. Had a 39 I think case with zepher gears, only broke once while racing it. Wis i still had it.
 
The straight gears are much stronger, they use straights in cobra mustangs today, the cut gears slip in much easier, so you can have strong gears that hang up and grind or cut gears that chip and slip, not much of a choice is it?
 
G.M. said:
How Strong?? I put an 1949 Olds 88 in my 34 coupe in 1950. It took the teeth off the cluster every time I "hit" 2nd, it took them off like you put it in a lathe. 3 transmissions in 2 days. In those days we could change a transmission in about 1/2 hour. I put a Lasalle trans in and no more problem. G.M.
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The early Ford transmissions were not designed to take the torque of the Olds Engine. When we talk about early Ford Transmissions, "Strong" is a very relative term. They were OK for "Normal" driving with a stock engine, but marginal when you had a Hot Flathead and did any hard driving at all and would come apart on a regular bases if you were Drag Racing your Built Flat Motor. In the "Old days", the Cad-LaSalle was the transmission of choice. It could be relative easily adapted to the early Ford drive line and the gears were stronger then hell.

If a person wants to use an early Ford top shifter trans and wants the strongest he can get, use a GOOD 78- Case with the full lingth rib on the bottom and use new or very good used Ford or early replacement Gears and get everything set up properly. Then, keep your fingers crossed. Dumping the clutch from a dead stop is hard on any transmission, especially the early Ford Trans's.

Again, Just my opinion,

Chris
 
Memories and war stories from the 50's about transmissions. . . . .

Transmissions were always a weak spot in my peer group - mostly Flatheads, a few overheads. This would have been in suburban Philly, around Ardmore, Bryn Mawr, Villanova and Rosemont from about 1950 to 54. Breaking transmissions was just part of the game.

We often drove cars with missing gears, or crippled in some other important way - it just didn't stop us from driving the car. I can remember hanging out at the gas station with a few friends in, probably 1952, and the conversation went like this: "anyone want to go to THE MOO for a burger?" (local hangout and dairy bar). One guy might say "I'd drive but I only have first and reverse", another would chime in "well I've got second and high, but no reverse" and so it went.

We all sympathized when our buddy blew a transmission. I think I repaired the one in my 40 coupe 13 times in a year. We had a belief that every Ford gear had a weak spot in it somewhere and it was just a matter of time speed-shifting before you hit the weak spot, then BLOOIE!

Usually the damage was the cluster, first and reverse slider and the reverse idler gear (this from memory may not be correct) but I do know our Ford dealer stocked extras of these part numbers because of the extra demand from the Hot Rodders.

For a while it was the fad to swing the shift lever over to the left hand side of the column. This supposedly made the 1-2 shift faster because you were moving down when you shifted instead of up - since it made the shift pattern upside down. It also made driving with an arm around your honey easier.

We usually could survive financially from a blown transmission, but occasionally someone would blow the case as well, and this was cause for great sympathy on our part because cases were expensive, and none to be had in the 20 or so junkyards we frequented. So a blown case sometimes meant the car had to be off the road until the owner scraped enough together to buy a new case. $$$$$.

We knew just what tools wold be needed to pull a transmission, and we did them in the weirdest places, including one time when we pushed a car up with the driver's side wheels on a high curb and pulled the transmission while rolling around in the snow.

Albert Esposito was a legend - I never witnessed this, but so the story goes while finishing up a transmission he accidentally dropped a 1/2 inch socket in the case. Saying "F-It", he buttoned up the case and drive the car that say for a couple of weeks with he socket whizzing around in the case until the inevitable happened - and he did break the case that time.

These are just memories from 60 years ago when we were a lot stupider, I hope they are accurate, but could be a little off because of memory, but anyway they make good stories.

Henry
 
Henry, Great memories! Ran that "strip" starting around '57. Remember the rough pavement starting across the ruts from the cross traffic at the 5 points intersection; grabbing 2nd just past the intersection and leaving it there all the way to the PennyWhistle (P&W) bridge, almost a quarter mile; dropping into third and if you had the nerve, hammer down all the way through Martha Brown's Woods hoping that Officer Koch or Hennesey from the Radnor PD weren't at the opening waiting for us; back to the Moo to see Iacone pick up the back of your car off the ground and a thick shake and a burger to top off the evening. Ahh yes, great times. Ken
 
Hey Ken, Your just a youngster, Jack Walker and myself used the "same track" in the late 40s and early 50s. Sproul Road was the real track for "serious" events. I lived in Drexel Hill. Henry I bought a Modle A roadster from John Hill, Hills sea food. in the 40s for $15.00. He let me use his tag to take it home. State police stopped me and took the tag and gave me a ticket for 35.00 They took the tag back to John and gave him a ticket for $35.00. I didn't know John and never saw him until in the late 70s when the bartender at the Black Angus where we went for diner told me that was John hill at the other end of the bar. I walked down and told him who I was. He said you S.B. I sold you the car for $15.00 and got a ticket for $35.00. I bought dinner for him and his wife for restitution. G.M.
 
KGS said:
Henry, Great memories! Ran that "strip" starting around '57. Remember the rough pavement starting across the ruts from the cross traffic at the 5 points intersection; grabbing 2nd just past the intersection and leaving it there all the way to the PennyWhistle (P&W) bridge, almost a quarter mile; dropping into third and if you had the nerve, hammer down all the way through Martha Brown's Woods hoping that Officer Koch or Hennesey from the Radnor PD weren't at the opening waiting for us; back to the Moo to see Iacone pick up the back of your car off the ground and a thick shake and a burger to top off the evening. Ahh yes, great times. Ken
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This is why you have to follow these threads to the end. Great stories.
 
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