Sudden Stall on '47

Fred A

Fred A

Well-known member
Out dirving in nice weather today when the car stalled quite suddenly when pulling into a busy intersection. I was about twenty miles into the drive at this time and the temperature was were it always sits with the 180' thermostats. It had been running a bit rough, seemingly dropping cylinders at fast idle, but power seemed normal, running kind of sloppy like when a power valve fails. I have not been able to restart the car since and have looked at all the classic points of failure. The accelerator pump pumps normally. The sediment bowl has been catching lots of rusty water and mud which gets stirred up from "testing" the new brakes. Replaced the carb anyway There is some spark however less intense than would have been expected. Replaced the coil with the ugly one that was running the car when I got it 4 years ago. Still the spark is unimpressive. The condenser is one of those original looking things with few miles of service. Since I dislike working on these distributors and the '47 is the most unfriendly to rewire, fear is that the coil wire may haver backed out inside the cap, such a crush of wires. hate those things. Either starting spray did nothing. Bypassed the ignition resistor. Still not even a pop out of the engine when trying to start. Voltage to the coil aroung 4v static. Plugs look wet, from trying to start? Been intending to find someone to set new points in the distributor. Did I say I dislike those things, especially where they are located behind belts and down in a hole... Not used to working this hard just to get something started. I know there are catastrophic things like timing gears that can make diagnosis even tougher, but this engine is too fresh for that kind of stuff, or is it? Any ideas? Thanks: Fred A
 
Pull the cap and crank the engine,see if the dist is turning,that will tell you if the timing gear is still working.
Pull all the plug leads off and leave then 1/8 inch away from the heads,crank it then to see if you have spark, Lawrie
 
There is a fat 1/8" of spark, perhaps more. Engine cranks well but will not the slightest pause from ignition. Looks like the cap must come off for a check. Rewiring that cap was quite a wrestling match with the stiff wiires. Thanks: Fred A
 
You should run a filter if the tank has rust in it ,maybe 2nd carb blocked.Use a 12 volt jumper direct onto starter with 12 v car running ,if it starts come back to use ,
 
Maybe you should remove the fuel tank and clean it first, and go from there even if you do have ignition problems it will save trougle later. Marv:)
 
If starting fluid has no effect the addition of a fuel filter and a clean tank will not help get him started regardless of if it is needed, the engine still will not fire! Plugs wet and starting fluid will not produce a pop I believe he needs to perform a compression test to confirm compression. If there is compression verifying the engine is pumping air then he needs to concentrate on ignition.
 
Fred A said:
Out dirving in nice weather today when the car stalled quite suddenly when pulling into a busy intersection. I was about twenty miles into the drive at this time and the temperature was were it always sits with the 180' thermostats. It had been running a bit rough, seemingly dropping cylinders at fast idle, but power seemed normal, running kind of sloppy like when a power valve fails. I have not been able to restart the car since and have looked at all the classic points of failure. The accelerator pump pumps normally. The sediment bowl has been catching lots of rusty water and mud which gets stirred up from "testing" the new brakes. Replaced the carb anyway There is some spark however less intense than would have been expected. Replaced the coil with the ugly one that was running the car when I got it 4 years ago. Still the spark is unimpressive. The condenser is one of those original looking things with few miles of service. Since I dislike working on these distributors and the '47 is the most unfriendly to rewire, fear is that the coil wire may haver backed out inside the cap, such a crush of wires. hate those things. Either starting spray did nothing. Bypassed the ignition resistor. Still not even a pop out of the engine when trying to start. Voltage to the coil aroung 4v static. Plugs look wet, from trying to start? Been intending to find someone to set new points in the distributor. Did I say I dislike those things, especially where they are located behind belts and down in a hole... Not used to working this hard just to get something started. I know there are catastrophic things like timing gears that can make diagnosis even tougher, but this engine is too fresh for that kind of stuff, or is it? Any ideas? Thanks: Fred A
Click to expand...

Have you checked your ignition switch to make sure it is working properly. Mine was bad. It would run great and all of a sudden would stop. Liked to have never figured that one out. New switch, no more problems.

Good Luck.
Lawson
 
Wrestlig wires...on a 59A you do NOT have to remove the cap and wires to check or R&R distributor. To just see if rotating, unsnap cap and block it a bit forward carefulley...you may need to lower fan and undo that belt. To R&R, you just unclip cap, wiggle out the rotor, unbot the 2 bolts and slide it out.
 
What Worries Me...

Is the sudden nature of when it shut off, as having hit the ignition switch, with no last gasp or sputter as one might expect from starving for fuel or flooding out. The compression test as Ross says will tell. With these old cars the collection of potential contributory ailments can make it tough to sort out problems among the potential many. I've had the heads off this engine earlier this year and found only a good looking and fresh indications(except for that blown head gasket and rocking chair shaped heads) Only deep seated worries came from some signs of inelegant chraftsman using copper house wire to safety the flywheel, also a wild assortment of the wrong fasteners. Thanks again to those that help me sort this out. It is an important season to have things going well with the spring and summer events that I'd like to bring some old iron. Fred A
 
If it was compression you would expect it to drop cylinders but run on at least one bank Low voltage is always my first suspicion,There are several tests you can do . .As i said use a 12 volt jumper and see if it starts ,This will tell you several things .As Lawson said switch is one ,wet plugs = bad spark .It pays to carry a 6ft wire with Alligator clips on tour ,fix this direct to Bat to coil ,Also the glass bowl will not stop the fine rust. follow up on these and let use know then we will offer you the next set ,
 
Fred, I'm by no means an expert and there are many more that are better than I at this. I can, however, identify with your plight. All except the rusty water in the gas sediment bowl part. That is another issue.

My personal experience has been when running along and stalling and not starting, it is usually an ignition problem. I can't say for sure that your wires haven't backed out in your cap...but I doubt it. If the points are good, its probably a consenser or a coil. Just because they are new or look good doesn't mean a thing. That ugly coil you talked about when refurbished by a reputable person should last your lifetime. Now the condensers are another matter, the location on a 1946-48 is horrible and very difficult to change. If you goal is a show car your stuck, however, if its a driver you want, move the condenser up to the coil area. It will be easy to change, I believe the NAPA FA66 is the correct one with a longer wire (I'm sure more knowledgeable people will jump in on this). Don't forget to disconnect (or remove) the one below on the distributor.

Unfortunately, the thing to do is check one thing at a time. I've have often changed several things at a time and end up not know what actually fixed it. There are enough good guys on here that will help you get it on the road again. LouB.
 
Sure Not High On My List, But......

Pulled the distributor and the points looked smokey and metal was transferring from one point to the other. This brought the condenser into my sights. Took that repo looking gem off then it fell apart with the pos. tab parting company with the condenser. The solder had failed some time back from the look of it. Had an old condenser from my 6v Porsche that I placed on yet another distributor body bought at Long Beach for $10 with a good backup cap and fresh looking points. Started immediately. So there the car sits with a few replaced parts of still unknown pieces and one of my new V8-60 carbs(no longer new). Might as well continue my drive and see how the little carb does. Thanks to all who shared their great ideas. Fred A
 
Re: Sure Not High On My List, But......

Fred A said:
Pulled the distributor and the points looked smokey and metal was transferring from one point to the other. This brought the condenser into my sights. Took that repo looking gem off then it fell apart with the pos. tab parting company with the condenser. The solder had failed some time back from the look of it. Had an old condenser from my 6v Porsche that I placed on yet another distributor body bought at Long Beach for $10 with a good backup cap and fresh looking points. Started immediately. So there the car sits with a few replaced parts of still unknown pieces and one of my new V8-60 carbs(no longer new). Might as well continue my drive and see how the little carb does. Thanks to all who shared their great ideas. Fred A
Click to expand...
condenser can be mounted on the coil bracket.Test the replacment condenser for leakage and capacity.Metal trensfer says bum condenser.
 
Re: Sure Not High On My List, But......

Condensers work on 6 or 12 volts. Napa IH-200 condersers work and last for years. G.M.
 
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