Stopping in 1927
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BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
Typical misinformation from such Content Providers. A 1927 Buick would run much faster than 25MPH. The commentator said the Buick was driving at 25MPH but later said the Buick hit the pedestrian at near full speed. Secondly, there was not the things wrong with Mechanical Brakes that the commentator suggested. Even Hydraulic Brakes that are worn-out and not adjusted have the same issue.
nkaminar
Well-known member
My first car was a 27 Chevy with two wheel mechanical brakes. They stopped the car and there was no way that they could have failed. However 2-wheel brakes do not stop as well as 4-wheel brakes. My father made me sell the car because he said that they were dangerous. During the Depression he drove across the US in a 27 Chevy that was old and worn out at the time and I think this biased his opinion.
The real dangerous brakes were on the Model T. The service brake was in the transmission and could fail at any time for a number of reasons. My father had the brakes on a Model T that he was driving with his parents as passengers fail while going down a hill in Los Angeles. He would not allow me to buy a Model T as a teenager. I put disk brakes on the rear wheels of my Model T that I bought much later.
The original Model A as it rolled out of the factory floor had good brakes, 4-wheel as you all know. They were mechanical.
The real dangerous brakes were on the Model T. The service brake was in the transmission and could fail at any time for a number of reasons. My father had the brakes on a Model T that he was driving with his parents as passengers fail while going down a hill in Los Angeles. He would not allow me to buy a Model T as a teenager. I put disk brakes on the rear wheels of my Model T that I bought much later.
The original Model A as it rolled out of the factory floor had good brakes, 4-wheel as you all know. They were mechanical.
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At 3:23 in the A.I. generated photo why is the kingpin fastened to the "axle" and what the purpose of the abortion at the top of the brake shoes?
Typical A.I. generated bogus "content" like Brett points out!
Utube is rapidly losing it's credibility by allowing such "content" to be published. But then maybe the Bean Counters in charge of everything these days do not know any better!
We can help to end this trash:
1. They make money when people watch this trash all the way though to completion.
2. If you stop watching as soon as you identify this A.I. garbage the BEAN COUNTERS MAKE LESS money.
3. And if nobody passes it on then it will "die on the vine".
Typical A.I. generated bogus "content" like Brett points out!
Utube is rapidly losing it's credibility by allowing such "content" to be published. But then maybe the Bean Counters in charge of everything these days do not know any better!
We can help to end this trash:
1. They make money when people watch this trash all the way though to completion.
2. If you stop watching as soon as you identify this A.I. garbage the BEAN COUNTERS MAKE LESS money.
3. And if nobody passes it on then it will "die on the vine".
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updraught
Well-known member
It would be interesting to know if the statistics on deaths is anywhere near accurate?
He seems to have a preoccupation with rods and cables. As cables are still used in hand brakes on cars and trailers, I can't see they would stretch that much.
I would have thought the problem in 1927 was the proliferation of 2 wheel brakes.
I spent my youth driving an A with a one wheel brake.
I can tell you it is much, much, better than a 1936 Chev factory roadster ute with hydraulic brakes ... that don't work at all.
He seems to have a preoccupation with rods and cables. As cables are still used in hand brakes on cars and trailers, I can't see they would stretch that much.
I would have thought the problem in 1927 was the proliferation of 2 wheel brakes.
I spent my youth driving an A with a one wheel brake.
I can tell you it is much, much, better than a 1936 Chev factory roadster ute with hydraulic brakes ... that don't work at all.
Joe K
Well-known member
The problem with Model A brakes lies in the steel drums. They wear "thin" and then when the brakes are applied, the drum heats quickly and expands. Hence "fade."
Ford himself knew of the problem and very late in the 1931 era, Ford started fitting cast iron drums to the Model A. I have a Model A front axle with a pair of drums out back of the barn which are these.
AND - beginning with the Model B, Ford changed the modus to a pressed steel brake drum center with a cast iron ring wear surface - which is where the Ford Brakes stayed for the next 10 years, well into the hydraulic era.
Ford change-over to hydraulic brakes didn't change anything. But everyone then said "if you want good brakes you NEED to put hydraulics on that Model A."
I even collected the parts to do this. They could be bought cheap then.
It is possible. You have to "stretch" out bolt holes in the spindle/backing plates to make the bolting possible. But when you're done you'll have a hydraulic system which will do EXACTLY THE SAME what the mechanical system does - and still doesn't yield "self-adjusting brakes" which is where the major improvement in American Car stopping technology came.
So I gave up the idea - and went Mel Gross.
"Stop on a dime, give you 9 cents change..."
Joe K
Ford himself knew of the problem and very late in the 1931 era, Ford started fitting cast iron drums to the Model A. I have a Model A front axle with a pair of drums out back of the barn which are these.
AND - beginning with the Model B, Ford changed the modus to a pressed steel brake drum center with a cast iron ring wear surface - which is where the Ford Brakes stayed for the next 10 years, well into the hydraulic era.
Ford change-over to hydraulic brakes didn't change anything. But everyone then said "if you want good brakes you NEED to put hydraulics on that Model A."
I even collected the parts to do this. They could be bought cheap then.
It is possible. You have to "stretch" out bolt holes in the spindle/backing plates to make the bolting possible. But when you're done you'll have a hydraulic system which will do EXACTLY THE SAME what the mechanical system does - and still doesn't yield "self-adjusting brakes" which is where the major improvement in American Car stopping technology came.
So I gave up the idea - and went Mel Gross.
"Stop on a dime, give you 9 cents change..."
Joe K
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
See, ...I tend to take a stance that even this is incorrect information.
If we were to discuss problems or faults with the Model-A design, I believe we could quickly generate a list that that is an 'arms length' long. Furthering this, ...I guess we are going to say that Model-As were dangerous before the Engineers decided the Fuel lines passing thru the Cabin unprotected needed to be changed in 1931 for safety. Maybe Ford Engineers knew that a Fuel Tank mounted in the driver's lap was dangerous so they decided to relocate them to the back of the car. (-that was a better idea until the Pinto came along!
) Think about the 2-blade Fan that Ford installed on Model-As. What a terrible idea since 25+ years later they began failing where people had the potential for getting hurt and/or car parts getting damaged. Why hasn't a class-action suit been filed against Ford by the national Model-A Clubs on behalf of its members?? 
We can likely do the same with Ford cars from the 1970s. AI probably thinks that Carburetors are a terrible idea .........now that electronic fuel injection became perfected. Maybe AI & Critics would say Ford Engineering knew there was a problem with Carburetors yet they produced engines with them anyway. The same analogy with Electronic Ignitions, -or Seat Belts, or......... <you get my point>
katy
Well-known member
When the foot brake on a Model T failed, the hand brake was there to be used, also the reverse pedal could be used as brake. Remember also that the Model T was not a heavy car.
nkaminar
Well-known member
The hand brake on a Model T was for parking and not any good in an emergency. It was steel on steel without any friction material. Even at parking it was not very good. You will notice that Model T owners carry a block of wood with a string attached for keeping the car from running over them when cranking. Once seated they can pull up the block of wood with the string.
As far as AI generated video content is concerned, it is not worth watching except maybe for laughs.
As far as AI generated video content is concerned, it is not worth watching except maybe for laughs.
Keith True
Well-known member
Stories like that are why I only look at utoob for entertainment.I have a 29 Graham Paige in my shed that has hydraulic band brakes around the outside of the drums.I have no idea how well they worked,The car came here because the hydraulic parts are frozen,and the bands won't contract.The owner seemed to fall off the face of the earth 11 years ago,so I never fixed it for him.
Joe K
Well-known member
Well, maybe correct but to attribute this to a FAIL on Henry's part is incorrect.
Consider the leap ahead that the Model A took over the Model T - we've written about the car which preceded the Model A.
And Henry was learning. In large part due to the encouragement of Edsel - who had some experience with European and "better" technology. A "rich man's son" effect.
We've just happened to have caught Henry's "learning curve" with our affection of the Model A. I've always considered that "part of the charm" of the car. We're fortunate that unlike the Model T which today (stock) is pretty much a "parade car", the Model A can do more. Perhaps MUCH more as evidenced by Charlie Yapp and others.
IF you want to go there.
The Model A was an amazing advance over most of the cars on the road in 1928. Between that and its price-point in a depression economy, it became a very well sold car.
Joe K
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
Not necessarily. One of the major downfalls with Model-T braking is if the Rear Axle breaks where the Pinion is no longer engaged with the Ring Gear (-which is common due to the Babbitt Thrust Washer failing), the Transmission Brake band nor the Reverse Drum are no longer connected to the rear wheels.
I speak of experience when on a tour in Grand Rapids, MI I had an axle failure where I am my 3 passengers went sailing thru a red light at an intersection. Fortunately for me the cross-traffic saw I wasn't slowing down and they gave me room. I did grab the handbrake however it was almost ineffective. Since that experience, all of my Ts have aftermarket Brakes.
serocontra
Member
as much as i'd like to keep my car original, it's stories like these that push me over the edge for safety.
for my brakes, what do you suggest getting changed out with modern parts?
or any other safety related things for that matter?
nkaminar
Well-known member
What car? If you are talking Model T then the best aftermarket brakes are the disk brakes. Not only do they stop well, forward and reverse, but you can ride them down a steep grade and they will not fade. That means that you can keep the car in high band and not down shift. They will work even with the broken rear differential that Brent was talking about.
The best thing you can do for the Model A is to keep the mechanical brakes but make sure they are in tip top condition. The Flat Head Ted Kit will help too, but will not fix brakes that are not in good shape.
The best thing you can do for the Model A is to keep the mechanical brakes but make sure they are in tip top condition. The Flat Head Ted Kit will help too, but will not fix brakes that are not in good shape.
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serocontra
Member
if you're referencing my question- it's for a '30 roadster
I'll look into those though.
does the fading happen with model a as well?
Edit- reread and noticed you said to keep brakes in tip top condition- will do.
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philosofriend
Member
When the steel Model A drums fade on you, no amount of pushing on the pedal does the slightest good. I did not learn that out of a book. The cast iron drums take a lot more heat before they also completely fade.
If you practice you can learn how to stop an A with only the parking brake. The trick is to keep the thumb button (or the squeeze release) fully pushed down and slowly pull the handle back. If you pull 1/4 inch too far the wheels will skid and produce close to zero friction with the road. If you panic and let the thumb button go up the car will keep skidding even if you let go of the handle. Go to a parking lot and practice.
Going down a long steep hill with A brakes is best done in second gear. You might want to practice downshifting at high speed without panicking or letting out the clutch too fast.
If you want to drive an authentic old car you need to know authentic old tricks.
If you practice you can learn how to stop an A with only the parking brake. The trick is to keep the thumb button (or the squeeze release) fully pushed down and slowly pull the handle back. If you pull 1/4 inch too far the wheels will skid and produce close to zero friction with the road. If you panic and let the thumb button go up the car will keep skidding even if you let go of the handle. Go to a parking lot and practice.
Going down a long steep hill with A brakes is best done in second gear. You might want to practice downshifting at high speed without panicking or letting out the clutch too fast.
If you want to drive an authentic old car you need to know authentic old tricks.