Starter Motor Type

Bob Bidonde

Well-known member
The starter motor is DC with its field coils connected in series. Are the field coils in series or parallel with the shunt (AKA commutator & brushes)?
I think the field coils are in parallel with the shunt because the shunt would not be exposed to the hi-current draw of the motor while starting the engine.
 
I can't say it's one or the other since it is more complicated but I will say this, the two pairs of field windings start out as series between each pair then the two pairs are connected in parallel at the power input terminal. Each pair is then connected at the other ends to the two power brushes that are 180 degrees apart. The pair of ground brushed are then connected to the case ground and are also 180 degrees apart. This makes it both a series and parallel circuit but many refer to it as a series wound motor in reference to the armature.
 
From “Ford Electric Equipment,” 1942. The Model A starter works the same except it uses four field coils. In Vol 2 of his manuals, Les Andrews calls this a series-parallel design, because the circuit divides into parallel to pass through the field coils, which all feed back to the commutator.

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When converting the starter over to 12 volts, you change the field windings from 2S2P to 4S. I suppose you could use 4P to make the 6-volt starter run faster. That is if the field windings and the rest of the starter can take the extra current. But they take 12 volts, so it would probably be OK.
 
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I suppose you could use 4P to make the 6-volt starter run faster. That is if the field windings and the rest of the starter can take the extra current. But they take 12 volts, so it would probably be OK.

You can do this, but it doesn't have the effect you're predicting... which is why Ford didn't do it.

If each field coil in the 2S2P arrangement has resistance R, the 4S arrangement has an equivalent field resistance of 4R, which is why it’s used for 12V conversions. But 4P makes the equivalent field resistance R/4, which is four times lower than stock. In a series starter motor, reducing field resistance reduces total circuit resistance and tends to raise current draw. How much the current rises depends on how large the armature resistance and battery/cable voltage drop are relative to the field resistance, but in practice it often rises a lot and stresses everything in the current path.

At the same time, the magnetic field per pole usually gets weaker in 4P. Field strength per pole is proportional to ampere-turns (turns times the current through that particular coil). In 2S2P, the line current splits into two branches, so each coil carries about half the line current. In 4P, the current splits four ways, so each coil carries about a quarter of the line current. So for the same line current, 4P cuts the field ampere-turns per pole in half. The line current will rise because the resistance is lower, but it usually doesn’t rise by a full factor of two because the armature resistance and battery sag are significant, so net field strength still decreases.

That matters because torque is roughly proportional to field flux times armature current. If you weaken the field flux, the motor tends to run faster, but produces less torque per amp. Under load it tries to make up the torque by drawing even more current, which increases heating and brush/commutator stress. A starter wired this way will appear to run faster when unloaded or lightly loaded, but it won't crank better under compression.

There’s also a saturation problem. Starters are designed so the iron in the field coils is near saturation at normal cranking currents. That means increasing field ampere-turns doesn’t increase flux very much beyond a point, but decreasing field ampere-turns can reduce flux noticeably. So 4P is more likely to reduce useful field flux than it is to unlock extra torque, and the extra current mainly becomes extra copper loss and voltage drop rather than extra cranking power.
 
Alexiskai, thank you for posting the Ford V8 starter description. Does anyone have an electrical circuit diagram of the Model A's starter motor & the 4 coil series parallel diagram. I cannot find an electrical diagram of the Model A's starter, so I will develop one from your diagram. I see pairs of field coils connected in series and the series pairs connected in parallel to the armature. Schematically, what goes on in the armature?
My goal is to make an electrical diagram of the starter motor that I will share with you all.
 

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The diagram I use is from a copyright protected source which is in "The Model A Generator" book by Paul and William Mcree that also has a section on the model A starter. This book has the best information that I've found on the powerhouse generator so it's well worth getting.

The diagram is similar to the one previously posted except that it has no interconection at the brushes. The end of each field pair is connected to each respective brush with no interconnections as in that illustration in the previous post. I hope this explains the confusion here.
 
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