not A Model but i'm in a pickle.

Sunny the Model A

Sunny the Model A

Senior Member
Alrightly y'all this one will definitely go down as the most left field question ever posted. but I appreciate any knowledge you can impart. I'm helping a friend with his 61 Buick Electra 225, the master cylinder is shot. we got it off the car and when we separated the cylinder from the booster the cylinder just fell to pieces, all except the piston, which is stuck fast on the booster. now we have a new cylinder and piston but we need the old piston off to put it back together. i know zip about hydraulic brakes other than they leak and are fussy things. how on earth do you get the stupid thing off :confused::confused::confused: now as far as i know the push rod in the booster and the piston should just come apart but they don't and i do not want to damage the booster since they are unobtanium and a rebuilt is far too pricey for my friend to swallow right now.
 
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You are going to find that rod sticking out of the booster is not just a rod like later cars.It will have the cylinder piston crimped onto it,and the booster end of it will have a ring,or boss,with a hole for a pin.It will also have some kind of weird clip to hold the pin in place.Also,not sure on that GM,but some had a three sided clip in the booster that a ball on the end of the rod snapped into.It may have a Z linkage on it,and tht clip over the pin might be lots of fun to get to.That rod is really part of the master,not the booster like later cars.
 
it does have the clevis hole on the booster side of the pushrod for the pedal, on the piston side it looks as if the piston is just sitting in the diaphragm. it can rotate fine but it absolutely will not come out. now you mentioned a clip on the inside of the booster, would it be in the side facing the pedal? i didn't see anything resembling a clip pin or otherwise.
 
Some early power brake cars had a unitized power brake system that was a booster with master cylinder attached. Folks had to purchase them as a unit for easy replacement. I think the 1960 through 1963 Buick electric deuce & a quarters were set up that way. Many were converted to later type dual master cylinders for convenience but I still see them sold as unitized on Flea-Pay and other sources.

The unit has to be disassembled to overhaul both the separate component parts. I'd have to dig out on of my old Motor's Manuals to find the info.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/176754364533
 
well flip. half the reason for the question about the piston is that it's chewed up, rust and wear have taken their toll. so i guess we're going to have to put a whole new unit on the car. ouch.
 
Brand X was always a GM product back in the model A era. The Chevrolet cars were all built like the Ford subcontracted bodies from Briggs and Murray in that they used a lot of wood with the sheet metal tacked on. This is why you don't see many early Chevy cars.

In later years, they would use some weird components either made by a GM subsidiary or by a budget subcontractor. Ford used some odd brake components but not as much as GM. Every manufacturer has its quirks. I've owned a Buick and had friends that did as well, For the most part, they weren't bad cars but they had some weird stuff in them when compared to other makes. The flex rope drive shaft set up in the 1961 Pontiac Tempest was a weird one.
 
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Does this look like your friends booster or like the one rotorwrench posted in his link.
 

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yep, that's the one in your photo Bob, except his has a completely shot cylinder and piston. the electra has almost 200,000 on the clock, it's never been restored nor has the engine been opened up. it sat for a long time and my thought is that during the sitting the fluid was contaminated with water, causing corrosion and other issues. the brakes worked ok for a while until recently the pedal sank to the floor. i told him to park it until we can get it fixed.
 
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If Jim Cannon sees this post he should be able to help as he is/was the Tech Man for one of the National Buick Clubs.
 
because the master cylinder is shot we're going to go with one of those kits on Ebay that puts a later master cylinder on it that bolts in as a direct replacement. we're not throwing away the old stuff but it's going up on the shelf for a rainy day
 
Doug Linden said:
If Jim Cannon sees this post he should be able to help as he is/was the Tech Man for one of the National Buick Clubs.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Doug! Yes, I am!

I would recommend that you install a new power booster plus master cylinder from a 1967 full-size Buick, which will give you a dual master cylinder. Much safer.

You plumb the front port to the front wheels (use the original distribution block on the frame; plug the rear port of the block). Put a loop or a Z-shape into the line going down.

Plumb the rear port the the line running back to the rear wheels using a T-union, where tubing goes on 2 ends and the T-fitting has a hole with NPT pipe thread. Connect the hydraulic brake light switch to that T-fitting. Use the loop or Z-shape on this line, too.

I get all my hydraulic tubing, ends, fittings, etc., from www.inlinetube.com

You can keep the vacuum storage can (for looks) if you want, or ditch it. Buick dropped it in '64.

Should be pretty straightforward.

The hardest part is the remove and replace of the power brake booster, getting it off of the brake pedal pin. Remove all floor mats, press brake pedal hard to floor, and have your assistant pull the booster away from the firewall under the hood then walk the booster toward the fender as you walk the clevis eye off of the pin. Small steps or it jams. Reverse to install.
 
Since we both are not fans of doing any chopping or modding work, i suggested of using a kit to adapt a 63-66 single cylinder, although a dual cylinder is what most people go with, since this is no race car and he frankly drives like a snail, the single is more than enough for what he needs. the only adapter will be for the brake light switch, but that's easy enough. we will keep the original to overhaul at some point, but for right now we have to get the car going as soon as possible. like me he's not exactly in a financial state to throw a grand or so into the Buick and since he only has an A, his Buick and a van that's giving out on him he needs to keep his cars on the road. the A is getting a new ring gear so he's down to a rickety old van. we need to get the Buick going soon. This is why i'm glad for my A with mechanical brakes, none of this fluid and cylinder nonsense.
 
Buy once, cry once. A dual circuit master cylinder is by far the safest route you should take. Brakes fail more often at slower speeds than they do at high speeds, and your friends driving style has no factor in them failing or not. If the original master cylinder was in as bad of shape as you describe, you should also replace or rebuild the wheel cylinders, and replace the brake lines. It’s likely contaminated too, and the car is over 60 years old.
 
the brake lines and cylinders were replaced about a year ago, the last thing to fail was the master and booster. i'm no expert on hydraulic brakes and despise them with a passion. i sold my 53 and gave the 91 s10 to my parents. i don't trust hydraulics in general. but since my friend is a fellow A owner and i live close by that's the main reason for tinkering on the Buick. we have the new single master and booster coming in the mail. we had considered swapping it to a dual set up but it's way out of his range and i'm frankly not a fan of fooling with brake lines.
 
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