****** noise; will thicker oil help?

Barry in St.Paul

Barry in St.Paul

Senior Member
freshly rebuilt ******, all Ford gears, best I could find out of several transmissions (Rev/1st and Reverse idler are NOS even..), excellent shafts, new bearings, etc... When I decelerate, like letting off the gas coming down a hill, I get a brief 'rattle' like the gears are free-wheeling. Thinking a thicker oil would help reduce this... I have the Bratton's "600W" oil, bought it about 5 years ago when I started rebuilding the ****** and engine. I've never thought it seemed very 'thick', vs what I've taken out of old transmissions or rear-ends. I've read many of the posts in the past and seems there is room for debate on whether the Model-A Parts vendors are supplying a true 600W or a blend of a lube with STP? (I think most recent was they DO add STP?) Anyway, since STP increases viscosity, debating about adding a little more to the ******. Is this 'rattle' on decel normal? (I've never driven a freshly rebuilt 'A before; my Dad's cars all have original trannys and the noises are kinda expected ;-)
Or, would one of the "best match" lubes, as listed by Marco at one point (Mobil:
Mobilgear 636, BP:Energol GR-XP 680, Castrol:Castrol Alpha LS680, Shell:Omala 680, Texaco:Meropa 680 ) be higher viscosity than the Bratton's 600W replacement? Which brings to mind a question, why wouldn't the parts suppliers simply buy one of the off the shelf lubes, if they are truly "equivalent" to the original 600W, instead of taking the trouble to make their own brew with STP?
thanks!
 
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the different gears may wear in . try a little power punch . great stuff ! .. steve
 
My transmission is still nursing from an old 5 gallon container of Texaco Thubane 140 weight but soon I too will have to find another source since that stuff hasn't been around for a long time now. Mobil 636 was also recently replaced with the 600 XP series oils. ISO 680 grade would be an equivalent to the high end of the old SAE 140 weight (probably near 190 weight using the SAE testing system). These oils should stand by themselves OK with no additive.

On your noise, it sounds like maybe your countershaft cluster has a little too much endplay. Maybe rattling around in there under no-load conditions. I don't know.
 
Penrite Transoil 140 is surposed to be equivalent to the old 600W (according to Penrite) It is also available in the thicker Penrite Transoil 250 which I have also . Is fine in summer but gives you a pretty stiff gearbox when cold -Karl
 
Barry,
Seems like a great opportunity to do some 1st hand 'sperimentin'. Try draining a pint out. If you are quick and don't mind slickery fingers, you can let just some of the existing oil out. Then fill 'er up with STP or one of the other oil thickeners. Then give 'er a road test and let us know the outcome.
We all hear each other's personally held views on this subject, but haven't heard much in the way of subjective testing. YOU have a sound and you think the oil is too thin. See what thicker oil will do.
And let us know.
Personally, I'd like someone with a noisy trans to try the stuff that Napa sells for modern limited slip transmissions. It is kind of pricy, but it sure quieted the rear end in my modern truck. It is 'sposed to "climb" the gears??
 
Bruce, good idea. Instead of adding MORE STP to what already is a concoction of that and 140W (apparently), I've decided to try Lubriplate SPO 288, which is a 250W lube. See the separate 600W/STP post for more info if you are interested.
 
Mike, I'll repaste what I just posted under the "600W Oil / STP" discussion this morning. Look at that thread for a lot of good info from others on this topic.
Barry
--------------
Update on the Lubriplate: found a great supplier of qt bottles. Looks like a supplier I'll bookmark for a lot of restoration supplies that will come in handy for my '28 Studebaker! We get spoiled with all the Model-A suppliers available.... but for other old cars, this place has a ton of great material that is difficult to find elsewhere..!!
Website: http://www.restorationstuff.com/index.htm
this is the info on Lubriplate SPO277 and SPO288 from their website. I'm going to go with the SPO288:

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]
140W Gear Oil​
[/FONT]
For transmissions and rear ends with straight, worm, or spiral bevel; good in cold weather or if the vehicle is hard shifting with heavier oils. LubriPlate SPO-277 [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]LUB010 $12.50/qt[/FONT][/FONT]​
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]
250W Gear Oil​
[/FONT]
A heaver, tacky cohesive oil for transmissions and rear axles where heavier oil is required. It can also be used with spiral/bevel or [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]older hypoid gears[/FONT][/FONT]. LubriPlate SPO-288 [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]LUB012 $12.50/qt[/FONT][/FONT]​
 
Someone said "Drain one pint out of the ****** and add one pint of STP.
My Service Bulletins Manual says the ****** has a ONE PINT capacity.
Is that accurate?
If so, that would mean running 100 % STP.
Is that good for his ******?
Is STP a lube or a thickener?
Thanks.
 
UPDATE on '****** noise' and 600W lube choices:
I purchased the Lubriplate SPO 288 (listed as SAE 250 range), and drained/refilled my transmission and differential housing. ( was using the Bratton's brew of 600W)
On first drive this morning, I do consider it an improvement. The whole ****** just seemed much quieter, driving at 50mph (my 'sweet spot' with 3.54:1 rear-end and 5.9:1 Brumfield head) in the quiet early morning, it was almost like driving a 'new car'! :-) So, I am pleased with the SPO288 and will probably use that next time I change lube in my Dad's cars as well. For reference, Model-A Times had a good article on this lube back in Volume 5-January?? I believe.
 
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PS: referencing the capacity questions above, I can verify :-) that the ****** is about at least a pint and the rear-end a pint & a half, as I used less than a quart and a half of SPO288 for ******, differential and steering. Not much of that was steering, I only replaced what I could suck out of the steering box, which was only a few ounces.
 
a voice in the wilderness again.....

pure STP has worked very well for myself and others in transmission, differential and steering boxes.

the voices of doom on this subject fail to consider the tens of thousands of miles logged with no problems.

fwiw
 
Re: a voice in the wilderness again.....

Just about anything will work includind 30weight motor oil, for a while if you don't have anything else. If it is too thin it will leak. If too thick the gears won't shift nearly as well.

A few years ago I read somewhere that sombody was recommending straight STP. I figured STP is REAL thick and would be good for the old gears. I put straight STP in my 31 tudor and run it for a few years. I read later that STP was not a lubricant but was only a viscosity booster. I started to wonder how well the stp would flow over the bearings on the cluster shaft and the other bearings. I noticed that the tudor didn't shift nearly as good as my other model A's, some with Snyders gear oil (250#) and others with Brattons gear oil ( I'm told 140# with STP added).

I decided to drain out the STP. I removed the filler plug and the drain plug and the STP would not drain out, not a good sign. I had to heat the transmission with a heat gun and it took about an hour heating draining and heating and draining. I got most of it out and hoped it didn't have any of the oiling passages stopped up. I put in Snyders gear oil and it made a big difference in the gear shifting. Opinions will vary, sort of like the motor oil debates. I guess whatever makes the owner happy. Model A gears are very robust and just about anything will work.
 
[FONT=&quot]Hi all, I wrote for our club newsletter an article on transmission oil and I refer you to this quote “I would prefer using known viscosity oil rather than an oil about which I know nothing. Rather than buy an unknown, I would recommend a quality high pressure gear lubricant for the Model A steering-transmission-differential such as SAE 250 or SAE 140 in that order. SAE 80W-90 is a little thin for quiet shifting and you will probably hear more transmission and differential noise than with 250 or 140. Some companies are packaging an 85W-140 oil which is a little thin for our purpose”. -- Lyle Meek, Technical Director MAFCA.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Information on 600W Oil[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Everything I've found indicates 600W was mineral based gear oil, early Model T data talks about 600W Steam Cylinder Oil, which research showed having a viscosity of ISO600/ 680. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ISO 320 is equivalent to SAE 85W140, ISO 460 is equivalent to SAE 140, ISO 680-1000 is equivalent to SAE 250.[/FONT]
 
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