Blank engine numbers

Werner

Werner

Well-known member
Hallo und guten Morgen.


Were there also selled engines or engine blocks without factory stamps?


What happened when a complete engine was replaced under warranty or later? Then, if they were all always stamped, the frame number would no longer match.


I remember in the early 1970s, here in Germany a new Ford replacement engine ex works was unstamped. The original number was then stamped by the Ford dealership that installed the engine.


Thanks in advance!
 
The Avatar (29 CC Pickup) came to me with 140K (miles) on the odometer, an engine which was VERY worn out (i.e. no shims anywhere) and egg-shaped journals on the crank.

The engine was painted RED, seemingly a replacement engine which was available here in the States from such as Allstate/Sears Roebuck.

No number on that engine - the number pad is "as cast" (i.e. never been stamped or ground flat) and that is the report I get on a few Allstate engines.

It is typical for a Model A engine with its usually non-air cleaner situation and not temperature controlled coolant to get about 70K miles before its considered worn out - so the total mileage on the vehicle works out.

I don't expect that US registration/titling followed a precise course - more a matter of the individual state and how conscientious they might have been in generating and tracking "revenue." In New Hampshire, once a vehicle has a License Plate (tag) the enforcement (i.e. police either state or local) tends to lose interest. Cars here tend to keep their license plate for the life of the car.

The truck currently has a Mid-1930s engine which came from behind a barn in mid-state Vermont and bought from someone who had restored a 1930 Roadster. The engine was rebuilt and swapped out for the red engine.

The red engine is still hanging around. Since it has no number I have considered having it reconditioned and then actually stamp the correct frame number to match the vehicle. Done like that it will be the way Ford and the State of NH intended it should be.

But on the other hand - the red engine painted red, and reconditioned, and left un-numbered and put back in Avatar IS a history should I choose to partake. And some history is worth preserving.

The state is happy once the title and License Plates are issued (and the tariff received), and the official recognition of the truck hasn't changed in 40 years.

And a red engine will certainly get some commentary at shows - and which inevitably will lead to discussion. It will never win "best of show" and considering the price of admission to that club I guess I'm good with it.

Half the point of ownership IS the discussion.

Joe K
 
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Werner said:
Hallo und guten Morgen.

Were there also selled engines or engine blocks without factory stamps?

What happened when a complete engine was replaced under warranty or later? Then, if they were all always stamped, the frame number would no longer match.

I remember in the early 1970s, here in Germany a new Ford replacement engine ex works was unstamped. The original number was then stamped by the Ford dealership that installed the engine.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...


Though it does not directly answer your question, here is an excerpt from the German Ford Austausch Motoren brochure for you to select your new engine (which were cast, by the way, by Gebrüder Sulzer. Note the raised "GS" letters above the water intake hole on the center engine, "...Rheinland...".):
581891


Brad in Maryland




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Hello, in the states ,Ford did have authorized engine rebuilders , in fact,Erie ,Pa had W.E. Smith and sons.Still in business in early 1970,s and I had a chance to to talk to him, they would attach a metal plate on the rebuild engine that had bore oversize and bearing under size on it . They would grind off the original number,and also restamp the engine with vehicle number if known. These were on an exchange bases .Hope this helps.
 
When the Ford Rouge plant completed a model A engine it was tested with the electric motor run and if it passed then it was stamped with a linear number. It could have an A or an AA prefix with stars on each end and could also have suffix designation for right hand drive applications. Engines that were made in Cork, Ireland or at the other plants that came later, would have assigned number from the Rouge. Ford of Canada made their own engines but they also had their own numbering system that generally used CA or CAA with another alpha prefix followed by four digit groups.

Engines that were sold in batches to companies for industrial purposes would not have serial numbers if they were not tested. Many were only short blocks since compressor applications used their own type of cylinder head. Companies that purchased batches generally stamped their own numbers on the block. Replacement bare blocks and short blocks were not stamped. The model B or BB vehicles had numbers stamped on the clutch housing above the starter so those blocks were not stamped.

Ford started subcontracting blocks to an outside source after A and B production was over. These have the diamond casting mark above the timing gear side cover. Ford completed engines with these blocks clear up to 1941 as replacements and industrial applications. They may or may not have a serial number depending on whether they were a completed engine or just a replacement block for service.
 
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