A Pillar Wind Noise Water Leaks

Jwawhite

Jwawhite

Well-known member
The weatherstrip appears to be incorrect for this model of car. It's not wide enough to cover the lip on the A Pillar.
Take a look at the attached photos, I've seen two other model wagons with same issue. I took a business card and could pass it from the out side of the vehicle past the A Pillar.
The doors do need a better adj but the lines of the door are close to adequate.

Same problem? What did you do? Add a wider strip in this area? If you take into account the line of the door to body, perhaps a quarter inch wider, plus? would quiet things down and stop the water leak.

I'll try, anyone with an original photo,stock car, of this area of a Wagon?
 

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Is the weatherstripping original, NOS or repro?


So you are saying the door upper door glass frame does not seal properly?
 
My guess would be that after many years of use (opening and closing of doors) that possibly the pillar has bent outward slightly and is causing the lack of seal. I would first try to improve on seal with the rubber weatherstrip and door adjustments Once I got it to seal the best I possibly could I would apply a little persuasion to the pillar for a better seal.
 
You have two problems JWA. First, that door is not properly adjusted. Second that foam rubber seal outer lip has been bastardized by the door mis-alignment and also appears to have suffered some shrinkage.
The Dennis Carpenter door seal reproductions are horrible for shrinking very quickly, often rendering them useless to seal out wind and rainwater leakage.
You may never get any weatherstrip to seal properly until you first get the door adjusted properly.
I fought leaky seals in my cars for 40 years up until 2017 when I finally broke down and decided to commit to a thorough adjustment of both front doors on my '55 car and my '55 Courier. It is difficult, especially for a smaller size guy like me, but I got that done. I think there is a detailed description of that door adjustment posted in this forum back in 2017.
THEN, knowing that my Carpenter seals (which were not very old) and still looked good, had shrunk drastically, especially around the corners of the window frames, I searched for a better quality seal. I selected a roll of reproduction Mopar seal from Metro-Moulded-Parts.
First, I removed only the portion of the Carpenter seal off around the window frame and left the old Carpenter seal intact from the bottom of the window on down.
Then I laid the new Mopar seal on a flat table and cut it using a boxcutter.
The secret to getting this particular seal to fit right on the '55 Ford is to cut 1/8 inch off the entire bottom of the seal across the top and back side of the window frame. I cut about 1/4 inch off the bottom of the seal at the front.
It is absolutely essential to cut "V"-shaped cutouts (about four each) at the bottom of the seal where the seal will go around the window frame corners. This will prevent the corners from buckling over at the top of the seal. Do this by fitting the seal up to the window frame (after the old seal has been cut-off). Then mark where the corners begin and end.
When all the cutting is finished, fit the seal up to the window frame again for a last look. If it's good, glue it on and clamp it using large binder clips, or C-clamps, each having a strip of 1/8 inch thick Masonite as a backer-board.
You will be amazed at the fit and how well it seals. I haven't had a leak since I did it.
 
KULTULZ, yes there really is a poor seal in this location. It seems to me the seal Face is not wide enough to fit up against the narrow Face of the lip off the A Pillar.

Daves55Sedan, I seem to remember your article on this, will give it a look over before I tackle the job. Thanks.
 
Jwawhite said:
KULTULZ, yes there really is a poor seal in this location. It seems to me the seal Face is not wide enough to fit up against the narrow Face of the lip off the A Pillar.

Daves55Sedan, I seem to remember your article on this, will give it a look over before I tackle the job. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Excert From Dave's Post-

,,,knowing that my Carpenter seals (which were not very old) and still looked good, had shrunk drastically, especially around the corners of the window frames, I searched for a better quality seal. I selected a roll of reproduction Mopar seal from Metro-Moulded-Parts.

First, I removed only the portion of the Carpenter seal off around the window frame and left the old Carpenter seal intact from the bottom of the window on down.

Then I laid the new Mopar seal on a flat table and cut it using a boxcutter.
The secret to getting this particular seal to fit right on the '55 Ford is to cut 1/8 inch off the entire bottom of the seal across the top and back side of the window frame. I cut about 1/4 inch off the bottom of the seal at the front.
Click to expand...

Dave has the answer. If you find the original post, please let us know.

The only way I could ever correct this problem was too remove the door pillar latch to be able to align the door so it sits correctly in the door opening. Lift on the rear of the door to see if the hinges are good and go from there. You may have to persuade the glass opening frame to seal more tightly against the jamb. There is an adjustment fixture shown in the manual that will give you an idea of how to go about it with blocks and a lever (2X4). Just don't go ape on it.When you are satisfied with positioning, install the latch.

Yours had some damage. Remember the latch pillar failure? It may have been in a collision and not brought back to spec.

https://www.kent-automotive.com/kent/Adhesive-Back-Shim-Stock/P46505.ka
 
I know on my Thunderbird the A pillar on the door is removable and does have some adjustment. I would take a look at that also while doing door adjustments to improve the sealing surface. Last ditch for me would be to mechanically persuade (move / bend) the pillar for a tighter fit up.
 
KULTULZ said:
The only way I could ever correct this problem was too remove the door pillar latch to be able to align the door so it sits correctly in the door opening.
Click to expand...


I should have mentioned that when I did the door adjustments, I did not have the door latch striker plates re-installed yet, since I had just finished all the body-work and painting. I left them off purposely so that the striker plates would not interfere with testing to see if the doors would close correctly after making an adjustment. Thank you KULTULZ
 
fordrodsteven said:
I know on my Thunderbird the A pillar on the door is removable and does have some adjustment.
Click to expand...


Sorry, none of the sedan or wagon door pillars are removable or adjustable. It is all resistance welded fabrication.
Actually, the factory did (when necessary) heat up and bend sedan door frames to get the slant correct if the door fabrication was a little off. However I recommend not attempting anything like this if the door was the original door that came with the car from the factory. I'm not sure I would try it if it wasn't.
It appears to me from the photo (and you can't really make a good assessment from a little photo because you are not seeing the whole picture), that JWA's door is adjusted out much too far at the front and somewhat tilted inward at the top.
To correct this, the door hinge-to-cowl bolts need to be loosened so that the door could be moved to fit the body contour from top to bottom. But I'd need to see the whole door to make a more accurate assessment. Keep fighting it JWA !
 
Daves55Sedan said:
You have two problems JWA. First, that door is not properly adjusted. Second that foam rubber seal outer lip has been bastardized by the door mis-alignment and also appears to have suffered some shrinkage.
The Dennis Carpenter door seal reproductions are horrible for shrinking very quickly, often rendering them useless to seal out wind and rainwater leakage.
You may never get any weatherstrip to seal properly until you first get the door adjusted properly.
I fought leaky seals in my cars for 40 years up until 2017 when I finally broke down and decided to commit to a thorough adjustment of both front doors on my '55 car and my '55 Courier. It is difficult, especially for a smaller size guy like me, but I got that done. I think there is a detailed description of that door adjustment posted in this forum back in 2017.
THEN, knowing that my Carpenter seals (which were not very old) and still looked good, had shrunk drastically, especially around the corners of the window frames, I searched for a better quality seal. I selected a roll of reproduction Mopar seal from Metro-Moulded-Parts.
First, I removed only the portion of the Carpenter seal off around the window frame and left the old Carpenter seal intact from the bottom of the window on down.
Then I laid the new Mopar seal on a flat table and cut it using a boxcutter.
The secret to getting this particular seal to fit right on the '55 Ford is to cut 1/8 inch off the entire bottom of the seal across the top and back side of the window frame. I cut about 1/4 inch off the bottom of the seal at the front.
It is absolutely essential to cut "V"-shaped cutouts (about four each) at the bottom of the seal where the seal will go around the window frame corners. This will prevent the corners from buckling over at the top of the seal. Do this by fitting the seal up to the window frame (after the old seal has been cut-off). Then mark where the corners begin and end.
When all the cutting is finished, fit the seal up to the window frame again for a last look. If it's good, glue it on and clamp it using large binder clips, or C-clamps, each having a strip of 1/8 inch thick Masonite as a backer-board.
You will be amazed at the fit and how well it seals. I haven't had a leak since I did it.
Click to expand...


I know this is an old thread, but can you tell me where you cut the 1/8" off the Metro LP 64A? Would it be across the bottom or the left?


7dp-Rs2r1RzJEbjdHg1rsxBsXuvixug7IJUta=w640-h480-no.jpg
 
The cuts are off the bottom. To get a straight cut, I layed the gasket on it's side and smashed down on it using a 4 foot aluminum carpenters level and made the cuts using an exacto knife with a new blade.
 
Daves55Sedan said:
The cuts are off the bottom. To get a straight cut, I layed the gasket on it's side and smashed down on it using a 4 foot aluminum carpenters level and made the cuts using an exacto knife with a new blade.
Click to expand...


Thanks, Dave, I appreciate it. What did you use for the rear door seal on your Courier? I might try this same stuff there.
 
For the Courier rear door seal, I used the reproduction door jamb seal that gets glued to the body and the reproduction seal that gets glued to the inside of the door. Thse are offered by Dennis Carpenter and are also sold by Mac's (Ecklers), Concours Parts and other repro parts outlets.
I HIGHLY recommend making "V" cutouts at the rounded corners of the door seal, otherwise, the top portion of the seal will buckle over and leave a gap which will leak.
 
Here is a sketch showing the cuts off the bottom of the gasket and the "V" cuts at the corners. Note do not use the long measurement across the top of the door gasket as this was for a 4-door sedan. The 2-dr sedan has a longer measurement.
 

Attachments

That's incredibly an incredibly useful diagram, Dave- it oughta be a sticky.


Do I understand correctly that you used just the two pieces, B5A-5943706-C glued to the body and B5A-5941608-D glued to the bottom of the door? Does it seem to seal well? I guess the Courier and wagon body stampings are the same there, makes sense.



1jCX1RTAVAdTSMjUj-DGRaaAFHhM89zWr23BY=w600-h694-no.jpg
 
I did get the B5A-5943706C seal that gets glued to the body. I did not use the lower tailgate seal. You can't get water in there anyway. I wanted to leave a narrow air-pocket between my back door and the wagon floor flange so that I could fly down the highways with the windows open and let the air-pressure rush out that little air space to reduce wind drag. I did not use any of the wagon tailgate and lift-gate seals they offered. I measured all around the sides and top of the Courier rear door and selected a universal trunk lid seal (probably from Metro). That gasket got glued to the backside of the door (replacing the wagon tailgate seals). Thus, the seal is rubber-against-rubber. The rubber door seal closes against the rubber seal on the body door jamb. Don't remember what part # I selected for that. But it is a good waterproof seal.
 
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