1928 side curtains

[pooch]

A few pics to try and explain what came with this car.

Was a long piece of flat bar about 1 inch by 3/16 ths bolted from front to rear.

This in effect made the roof non foldable.

There are 2 front spring loaded roll up/down fronts and fixed rears.

This is the bar with roof up

This the setup unbolted form car

This is a lug attached to the rear of the front roll down support that the rear curtain slots into

This is how the front rolls up.

I cut the bar in half and just left the front as I want the roof to be foldable, This is how the front curtain now looks with roof down.

This bar almost looked like a period accessory, it does not look home made.

Has anyone ever seen this setup before?

 

[d.j. moordigian]

No tab for the Top Prop, in the body?

 

[Ron in Quincy]

It appears someone has adapted some top irons from another type vehicle ? The irons don't look like the irons on my early 29 Roadster; also as said in the post above " no place for the prop nut in the top of the body behind the door"

Ron

 

[rotorwrench]

Too big for a roadster. Most likely a phaeton model.

Kerby

 

[pooch]

This a phaeton.

2nd pic is front door roll up and rear door fixed curtain.

I asked a while back, how original curtains attach to roof irons, but could not explain it without pics.

And even this didn't work, if you guys think it is a roadster.

 

[Tom Wesenberg]

I knew it was a Phaeton by the way you described the unusual side curtains, and by the pictures. I just have never seen or heard of such a setup like this before. My 28 Phaeton has the original 4 irons for the side curtains, but no usable side curtains to try on the car. I hope to buy some material and make my own side curtains this winter.

 

[Ron in Quincy]

I'm still taking the same position, think the irons were adapted to the A. They don't look anthing like the top irons that were on my July 28 Phaeton, which only had 58,000 original miles. I also had the side curtins and 4 irons, one for each door, when removed, there was no evidence remaining.

I guess its possible your arrangement could have been after-market manifactured by another company ?

Ron

Ron

 

[pooch]

To try and explain a bit better, I would say the irons are correct.

This long piece of flat bar was obviously fitted to attach the roll down curtains to.

It was screwed into the front wood at screen, had a hole and was bolted into the half way iron joint above the front and rear doors and had a drilled hole and was bolted thru at rear iron.

As seen in the first pic, there is a separate small curtain about the size of a wind wing on each screen side to meet up with the roll down front.

I can see where the a normal front curtain uses the same bent bar in door in an upright slot and clips around screen post.

These 2 front bars are long gone.

But, as this rear curtain has obviously been made to suit the accessory flat bar, I was curious how an original rear door curtain attaches to hood irons.

After I have cut the rear fixed bar and discarded that piece , so roof can fold, and I have left the lug to fit this curtain, it will do me for the time being.

 

[rotorwrench]

Its been a while since I've looked at a phaeton but it seems like they used a combination of common sense and cinch fasteners to attach the tops of the door curtains to the top irons. I think the fronts were common sense but I can't remember if the rears were cinch or common sense. I'm more familiar with the roadster and it used cinch on the top (little) curtain so it would have a bit more seal with the main door curtain and you could easily open the doors without un-snapping.

I imagine your set up was an accessory item and may have not been seen much in the USA if at all. I've sure never seen a set up like it.

Kerby

 

[MCHinson]

My guess is that your side curtains and hardware are either homemade or an aftermarket "one size fits all" side curtains, or else they were made for another car and someone adapted them to the Model A. I am going to attempt to post photos of my side curtains so you can see what they look like. I have to admit that I have never installed them on my car, but I have partially installed a few of them just to see how they go on. These photos include both sides of each side curtain and hopefully will allow you to understand how they attach. Not shown are the two sets of side curtain irons. The phaeton should have two pairs of those, installs in each door in a vertical manner.

 

[rotorwrench]

MCHinson or another phaeton specialist:
I think pooch and now my curiosity is wondering how the Cinch & Common Sense studs attach to the top irons? Were they just attached with screws on the Common Sense types (I figure the Cinch studs were 10/32 screw types) and were they mounted toward the inside so you could unfasten them easily to open the doors from the inside or were they mounted faceing out?

Kerby

 

[pooch]

My car is CA prefix.

Did model A/s come from factory with side curtains?

Would my car have come to Oz in a CKD form or complete, if it was brought here new, and not imported later?

I have never heard of common sense and cinch studs, they must be another name for what we have here.

This top round one, we call a press stud., the lower 2 we call "lift the dot".

These, I think would be just called toggle studs, note the front one is shortened so as no to abrade front curtain overlap.

 

[MCHinson]

pooch,

I have no idea exactly how to answer your questions. Obviously there is some difference in my car (as restored) and your canadian export model phaeton. My car is a 1929. One interesting side note is that my car has Canadian Rear Motor Mounts, but nothing else about it seems to indicate it being a canadian model.

From your last photo, it is clear that your car and mine are not identical. It has been raining too many days here for me to pull my car out of the garage to get better photos, but I have one poor quality photo that shows that the rear section of the top as shown in your photo is different from mine.

I have never installed my side curtains. Maybe I need to install them to see exactly how they do go in. I understand how they attach at the front and rear, and how they attach at the bottom. I understand how the curtain irons are installed, but I am not really quite sure how the tops of the curtains are attached if at all.

Anyone who has participated in Blue Ribbon Judging would have had to installed the side curtains on one side. Certainly there is someone on this site who has had a phaeton in Blue Ribbon Judging and can answer those questions....Right?

 

[rotorwrench]

Pooch

In picture 1 on post 12 above the lower fasteners to the left are the "Lift-The-Dot" types and they were used quite a lot in open cars varieties. They may have been a replacement for the Cinch types and or the body socket push fasteners which were hard to get for many years. In picture 2, the twist types are the Common Sense fasteners I refered to before. They have an oval eyelet that corresponds. Cinch types have a stud post with a spring loaded lock protruding out the side and an eyelet that fits the part to be snapped to the stud post. Similar to Lift-The-Dot but more pleasing to look at since the have a bright plated finish and the eyelets are round. It seems that one or more of the Model A suppliers have these fasters in stock and should have pictures of them on there web-sites.

As to what the Canadian or other Knock Down Ford car assemblers might have been supplied with, I couldn't tell you. The most common fasteners were the round body socket push to release snap fasteners that were commonly used around the back lower attachment of the top or hood to the body. Most open Model A s have the sockets installed around the body for these. Cinch, Lift-The-Dot, and Common Sense twist types were all used for side curtains in various different applications depending on the model of open cars or pick up. It looks like your car was set up with Common Sense twist types instead of the body socket types unless they installed them over the socket hole.

Kerby

 

[pooch]

Thanks Kerby, will pull a "common sense" aka toggle off and see if there is a single hole behind.