Odd battery issue

Rene R

Rene R

Member
I'm mystified.

Backstory: I ran an Optima battery for 6-1/2 years with no issues. I finally replaced it 18 months ago so it's right in the middle of its warranty. When parked in my garage I keep it on a tender for a full charge.

I drive my '28 Fordor almost every day, but never at night. Long story but yesterday I drove to an event and parked it for the afternoon and evening. The plan was to drive it up the hill at the end of the event and park it overnight in a locked compound, then pick it up today. It fired right up, as usual, and I took off.

But-- with the lights on it stalled every time I came to a stop. I had to restart 3 or 4 times, each time turning off the lights while cranking over.

When I got to the gate it stalled again. The gate opened so I hit the starter again and it wouldn't crank at all. Dead.

We pushed it inside so it's safe. Today I went back to see if I could get it going. The battery had regenerated enough that it turned over but before the engine fired the battery ground down to a halt again.

So, do I just have a defective Optima? Is there any possible explanation for a fully charged and previously always reliable battery to fail with the minimal drain the lights put on it?

One other detail: one headlight didn't turn on. Is it possible there's a short in there and that caused the battery to drain rapidly? (VERY rapidly.)

Tomorrow I'll have to get it towed. I'll recharge the battery but I don't know whether I can trust it to hold a charge. I just can't fathom any reason why a new, fully maintained Optima would suddenly fail on me.
 
There are many things that can cause the issue. You need to fully charge the battery, then take a good volt meter and check the voltage when the engine is running at high idel. Also use a good dc amp meter and start isolating things and check for a draw with the engine off and the ing. switch off. It could be low or no charge from you generator, bad battery, current draw from a restive short to ground (a damp cracked and dirty wire can do this), etc. If you do not have a good meter I recommend a Fluke, 77, 87, etc. They will not be affected by the noise on the electrical system when the car is running. I can make this statement as I have used them professionaly in very noisy and RF heavy electrical testing for 30 years. Also use a printed copy of the A electrical diagram to help you.
 
Did you by any chance, hook it up wrong? That is pos and neg on wrong? I did this once on my D2 Cat and after awhile running it, the battery went dead.
 
I guess my first question is, what is/was the charge rate. You didn't mention it.
How are the battery connections, including ground ? When were they last cleaned ?
A headlight wire could very well be grounded and shouldn't be too hard to find.
 
From my experience with batteries they go out on you anytime .

Most times its when the weather turns real hot or cold .

I don't know about those jelly batteries .



,,,
 
A suggestion: Remove the battery and remove the ground cable from where it is attaches to the frame. Take a little disk sander on a drill motor and clean all the paint and crud off the boss where the cable attaches. Wire wheel the nut, bolt and the end of the cable. Your problem may be a poor battery ground. This connection is the most overlooked electrical connection on a Model A Ford because it is out of sight, out of mind, and hard to get to. You want to clean this connection at least every 20 years.

Tom Endy
 
You say you keep the battery on a tender, and then state that you drive it almost every day ??? I live in upstate NY where temps drop into the minus category many days throughout the winter - I may go two or three months without starting a car and have never had one fail to start - without being on a tender. This is with 6 volt systems - Model "A" - '50 Chevy, 51 Plymouth, 49 Dodge, and I think a couple of others.
Why do you keep it on a battery tender ????
 
I agree with Jon in pose #3. Charging rate is the FIRST thing to look at. A good battery used as you mentioned with no lights could perform well for months without the generator not charging if you put a trickle charger on it when you finish driving.

Check the amp meter when running. No charge - check cutout,amp meter and generator.
 
Thanks for all the input. I will check out the recommended details tomorrow when I can get the car towed back.

The ammeter was showing a charge at least as recently as a couple of weeks ago when I looked at it but to be honest I haven't glanced at it recently. This car has been so reliable for so long that I tend to take a lot for granted.

This is the first time it has ever failed on me in 10 years of fairly regular use. But Phil's point is well taken: since I don't drive it long distances (typically less than 25 miles or less each time I go out) it is possible that the generator isn't doing the job and it's only the trickle charger that has kept me going without issues.

But even yesterday's trip wasn't far, and the circumstances (first time I've needed to use the lights) make me think that the key problem relates to the lighting system.
 
That ground connection can give some strange symptoms. My car would start just fine but would quit when idling as at a stop light. It would start up again after a couple of minutes. Cleaned ground connection and no more problems. What I think happened was that the ground connection would open up and the car ran on the generator until at idle the generator would not put out enough to run the car. Why it healed after a minute or so is a good question.
 
I'm not a fan of battery maintainers and have never used one on my cars. I get extremely long life out of my 6 volt batteries, and have let them set for 6 or 7 months over the winter with no charge. The past couple years I have started to put the 6 amp battery charger on my 28 for an hour every 3 months, just to top it off.

My neighbor has gone through those yellow start packs at the rate of one a year because the trickle charger actually overcharges the battery and cooks the water out of the cells.

And another reason I don't use trickle chargers is I don't like to leave a battery on a charger unattended. I even cut the power to two of my storage garages when I'm not in them. Seeing burned antique cars is just too sad to risk having it happen to mine.
 
Go to Optima's web site and you will find they do not charge the same as flooded batteries when dead. They need to be initially hooked up to a working 12 volt battery to give them a kick prior to accepting the charge.
There MIGHT have been a short in the headlight that drained it completely.
DO read Optima's instructions on charging a dead Optima.
Good Luck !
 
Tom what are "yellow start packs"? One of the Model T's I work on has had the battery water go real low from over charging. The Battery is almost new and would like to see if I can save it.
MarkG
 
redmodelt said:
Tom what are "yellow start packs"? One of the Model T's I work on has had the battery water go real low from over charging. The Battery is almost new and would like to see if I can save it.
MarkG
Click to expand...

That's those small yellow packs you can carry around for a jump start or plug someing into the cigarette lighter socket on them. If you open them up you'll find it's just a small motorcycle battery and trickle charger inside.

I saved the two short jumper cables from his last unit, and the triple lighter socket, but that was all that was worth saving.
 
The conclusion to the story:

Several of you nailed it. The generator was putting out power but not enough to support both ignition and lighting. My mechanic adjusted the brushes to increase the output slightly and everything is back to normal.

The ammeter had already been showing some charge when running but now the needle advances a bit further.
 
I have had a similar problem with an Optima 6V red top. My engine was starting just fine? Not really as with the electronic ignition when the battery is low and the engine is cold it won't start until I release the starter. I knew but didn't listen as the starter turned the engine at a very crisp speed. When I arrived at my destination I turned off the switch and gas tank valve, all lights off and ammeter in the center. When I was ready to leave the park lamps were very very dim. I checked voltage and found 3.5V. 13.5 hours were required to fully charge the battery with an AGM charger on the low rate. I installed a lead acid battery to get home and upon checking the charging voltage found only 6.2V. Not enough to maintain a battery under any driving conditions. I have set my regulator to a charge voltage of 7.4 with the optima reinstalled. I am thinking that an Optima battery operates much the same as a NiCd battery; discharge at a very low rate until a certain level is attained and then it falls on it's face. I have a friend who had this same experience with a Yellow Top Optima deep cycle battery also. I still have much to learn about this spiral cell technology. I have a 35A Ford generator charging at a rate of 7.4V and an ammeter reading of 9A. I'll see how that works.


Chet
 
I just received a reply from Optima concerning my question Gen/Alt and the only answer is that Optima says that the demand on the battery is more than a generator could handle.

Chet
 
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