Bob Bidonde
Well-known member
I want to hear from those running a Burtz engine. If I were to buy a Burtz engine for $3900, what is the total cost to get it running without any extras?
Cost of Running Burtz Engine
- Thread starter Bob Bidonde
- Start date
Synchro909
Well-known member
I very much doubt any of those engines will be put together with no extras. The reason people buy them is for the ability they have for more power and stamina. I think VERY few will be assembled with a standard head for example and most will have a down draught carburettor and a cam as well and that is a minimum.
Been wondering the same. Surprised someone hasn't ran an ad in the Restorer on News next to the Burtz ad.
Ray in La Mesa
Well-known member
I would think it would be favorable to a rebuilt original engine, with the added bonus of new alloy material in the parts verses fatigued, crack repaired original blocks. The labor cost of pouring, boring & fitting babbitt would bring them close in price.
denniskliesen
Well-known member
That depends on how you plan on building. The Burtz kit has 5 main journals for crank and camshaft. It’s pressure oil lubed. The crankshaft is, dynamically balanced, counterweighted on each side of all 4 new forged rods. It takes a takes a radial lip seal in the rear. You can either install a 3 journal camshaft or 5 journal cam. All of the inserts are the same as a small block Chevy with 2” journal on the rods and mains.
I have over 12,000 miles on my Burtz engine that runs better than my old A engine with less vibration and smoother quieter. As far as I’m concerned you get a lot more bang for your buck with a Burtz kit. I’m getting another Burtz for my pickup beings the engine that’s in it is tired and I’m not wasting money on a tired and stressed block, crank, rods etc engine.
Incognito-A
Senior Member
I plan on building one stock with high compression head as well…stay tuned.
No doubt the Burtz engine is better designed and engineered than Henry's original A. To my mind using it is not much different than using a Pinto engine as was used in the Shay, or any other after market engine. To each his own. I am not a purist but I do like the authenticity factor of using the original engine, and mods of a type that were available back in the day if that is fun for you. Hey, what's the fun (and challenge) of owning a Model A if you do not have a knock, rattle, miss, oil, water or gas leak, timing problem, occasional breakdown, etc. I do hope the organizations do not start recognizing the Burtz as a Model A equivalent engine and accepting it in judging and competition.
Dave in MN
Well-known member
Without any extras: In my motor shop, the cost of a Burtz long block without a flywheel and clutch would be $6,500.00
This is using a decked original head, reground original camshaft, new oil pump drive gear and a modified original oil pump that includes a pressure relief and greater flow.
Original and new parts are painted to meet judging standards. Add about $525.00 for a new Burtz flywheel, new V-8 style pressure plate, new ring gear, clutch disk and input shaft bearing. Add about $150 for an oil filter.
Others will have different costs.
From my cost records and recent builds, the cost of a Burtz engine is about $1,700.00 more than a Model A non-pressurized long block. Considering you are getting full oil pressure, 5 main journals @ 2" diameter, a fully counterweighted crankshaft, beefy rods and a rear main seal for $1,700 more than the cost of rebuilding an original block...I think it's a good deal.
I have Burtz engine #7 topped with a Miller High-Speed head in my '31 S/W Town Sedan with about 6,700 miles on it. I'm very satisfied with it.
I understand and respect those that long to keep the Model A's original and those who want a more durable engine or performance engine. To each his own...but I happen to be one of the latter.
Good Day!
www.durableperformance.net
This is using a decked original head, reground original camshaft, new oil pump drive gear and a modified original oil pump that includes a pressure relief and greater flow.
Original and new parts are painted to meet judging standards. Add about $525.00 for a new Burtz flywheel, new V-8 style pressure plate, new ring gear, clutch disk and input shaft bearing. Add about $150 for an oil filter.
Others will have different costs.
From my cost records and recent builds, the cost of a Burtz engine is about $1,700.00 more than a Model A non-pressurized long block. Considering you are getting full oil pressure, 5 main journals @ 2" diameter, a fully counterweighted crankshaft, beefy rods and a rear main seal for $1,700 more than the cost of rebuilding an original block...I think it's a good deal.
I have Burtz engine #7 topped with a Miller High-Speed head in my '31 S/W Town Sedan with about 6,700 miles on it. I'm very satisfied with it.
I understand and respect those that long to keep the Model A's original and those who want a more durable engine or performance engine. To each his own...but I happen to be one of the latter.
Good Day!
www.durableperformance.net
Attachments
Last edited:
I agree with PC/SR's post.
If I wanted to put a modern Engine in my Model A ,I would see no point in owning it.
To me part of the experience of driving my Model A is to experience the Model A as it sounded and drove as it did in my A's case in 1930, warts and all.
I would definitely pay more to rebuild a original block if my A's engine needed a rebuild.
I feel that replacing the original block/ engine with a modern repro is the same as putting a diesel engine in an Ocean liner that originally was powered with a steam turbine. It is not the same. It has lost something that makes it unique.
I know that the Burtz Engine is smoother more reliable , more powerful than an original engine/block , but it is destroying the soul of the vehicle.
All things being equal If I were given the choice of buying a Model A that had an original rebuilt Engine or a Model A with a Burtz block I would go for the "A " with the original block engine every time.
I would pay extra for one with the original block. More desirable in my opinion.
This is my personal preference. Time will tell which way it pans out.
Would you buy a1930 Packard with an origional Engine/block or one with a repro block ? Which one is more desirable ?
Mark.
If I wanted to put a modern Engine in my Model A ,I would see no point in owning it.
To me part of the experience of driving my Model A is to experience the Model A as it sounded and drove as it did in my A's case in 1930, warts and all.
I would definitely pay more to rebuild a original block if my A's engine needed a rebuild.
I feel that replacing the original block/ engine with a modern repro is the same as putting a diesel engine in an Ocean liner that originally was powered with a steam turbine. It is not the same. It has lost something that makes it unique.
I know that the Burtz Engine is smoother more reliable , more powerful than an original engine/block , but it is destroying the soul of the vehicle.
All things being equal If I were given the choice of buying a Model A that had an original rebuilt Engine or a Model A with a Burtz block I would go for the "A " with the original block engine every time.
I would pay extra for one with the original block. More desirable in my opinion.
This is my personal preference. Time will tell which way it pans out.
Would you buy a1930 Packard with an origional Engine/block or one with a repro block ? Which one is more desirable ?
Mark.
McMimmcs
Well-known member
I totally agree with you. I want a stock A like my dad drove. Wayne
s.e.charles
Senior Member
Oldbluoval
Well-known member
“I’m getting another Burtz for my pickup beings the engine that’s in it is tired and I’m not wasting money on a tired and stressed block, crank, rods etc”
Therein lays the problem. Running out of original blocks and internals that are rebuildable for good service.
Also running out of craftsmen to rebuild original stuff.
Anyone post a pic of Burtz engine in a car?
Therein lays the problem. Running out of original blocks and internals that are rebuildable for good service.
Also running out of craftsmen to rebuild original stuff.
Anyone post a pic of Burtz engine in a car?
Last edited:
Bob Bidonde
Well-known member
Thanks Dave in Maine, you are the only one who answered my question. Here is why I asked. I need a replacement for a Model "B" engine that is not salvageable.
I have a quote of $4500 for a rebuilt Model "B" short block where I provide the engine. Adding another $500 to get the engine into running condition including a new 6:1 cylinder head, studs, gaskets, etc., plus the cost of a Model "B" engine core, my cost for a rebuilt Model "B" engine will be about $5500.
So the comparison is $5500 for a rebuilt Model "B" engine and $6500 plus shipping for a Burtz engine.
When I started playing with Model A's back in 1962, a rebuilt short block from Sears Roebuck was $39. In 1970, I paid $300 for a rebuild Model "A" long bloc. My my, the cost of our hobby has skyrocketed!
I have a quote of $4500 for a rebuilt Model "B" short block where I provide the engine. Adding another $500 to get the engine into running condition including a new 6:1 cylinder head, studs, gaskets, etc., plus the cost of a Model "B" engine core, my cost for a rebuilt Model "B" engine will be about $5500.
So the comparison is $5500 for a rebuilt Model "B" engine and $6500 plus shipping for a Burtz engine.
When I started playing with Model A's back in 1962, a rebuilt short block from Sears Roebuck was $39. In 1970, I paid $300 for a rebuild Model "A" long bloc. My my, the cost of our hobby has skyrocketed!
Last edited:
Dave in MN
Well-known member
Bob Bidonde,
I started with a "B" block in my '31 S/W and had it fail to cracks. I built up another "B" in milder form to lessen the chance of failure again. I was not satisfied with the performance as I plan to pull a camper on a road trip. I replaced it with the Burtz engine topped with a Miller High-Speed head and now have what I feel is necessary to pull the camper. I am not looking to remain stock but like the use of a 4 cylinder block that looks stock.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
FYI: Once assembled, there is only one area on the Burtz block that is an indication it's not an original block. If I did not point it out as to where this is, it would escape all but the very observant.
Good Day!
Dave in Minnesota
I started with a "B" block in my '31 S/W and had it fail to cracks. I built up another "B" in milder form to lessen the chance of failure again. I was not satisfied with the performance as I plan to pull a camper on a road trip. I replaced it with the Burtz engine topped with a Miller High-Speed head and now have what I feel is necessary to pull the camper. I am not looking to remain stock but like the use of a 4 cylinder block that looks stock.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
FYI: Once assembled, there is only one area on the Burtz block that is an indication it's not an original block. If I did not point it out as to where this is, it would escape all but the very observant.
Good Day!
Dave in Minnesota
Last edited:
Jeff/Illinois
Well-known member
Sounds like the price difference between the two options, isn't a deal killer.
Me, I'd spring a few extra bucks for the reliability you will have with Mr. Burtz' new block package. That alone buys peace of mind and would be well worth it to me.
Dennis is proof positive enough with his '29 Tudor with 12,000 miles
Me, I'd spring a few extra bucks for the reliability you will have with Mr. Burtz' new block package. That alone buys peace of mind and would be well worth it to me.
Dennis is proof positive enough with his '29 Tudor with 12,000 miles
McMimmcs
Well-known member
Sounds like the price difference between the two options, isn't a deal killer.
Me, I'd spring a few extra bucks for the reliability you will have with Mr. Burtz' new block package. That alone buys peace of mind and would be well worth it to me.
Dennis is proof positive enough with his '29 Tudor with 12,000 miles
What you say makes good sense ( cents )! Wayne
gdmn852
Well-known member
Hello again, as I mentioned I plan to build a Burtz engine with the high compression head , I can understand those wanting an original engine and appreciate those that have built up high points cars. My roadster was converted to hydraulic brakes before I got it also the more I worked on it maybe a collection of flea market parts. My goal is to have a driver type car.Better than a sbc !