'57 312 Timing

M

mytluv

Junior Member
I'm currently unable to use the timing marks on my '57 312 w/ single 4 barrel w/ Fordomatic to time my engine. I've seen a number of posts on this and other communities of others having the same or similar issues with no resolution. If I adjust the timing to 6° as documented in the Ford Shop Manual the engine runs rough under a load. If I advance the timing to almost 45° the engine appears to run well and idle and under a load.

I have replaced the crankshaft damper pulley; which was off; and confirmed that it aligns with TDC (top dead center). I've also verified that the rotor does point to #1 when at TDC. And that both the intake an exhaust values are closed on #1 at TDC. So this should eliminate the pulley, timing chain and distributor alignment. I've installed a new electronic ignition, coil and replaced the plugs. I've also inspected all of the plug wires and confirmed that I have no shorting to ground. Also the vacuum appears to be good as well.

At this point I'm at a complete loss. All suggestions other than the one's above will be appreciated.
 
What vehicle is it in? Any major work done on the engine in the past or recently?
Is the vacuum about 19 or 20?
Does the vacuum canister on the distributor work?
Is there a chance the plug wires are a position off in the cap???
Did you install a pertronics kit in the original distributor or swap that distributor for something else?

Was the engine ever running better for you? What else has changed since then?

If you can post photos of the parts you're working with it might help.
.
 

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As Mikey used to say in the commercials


"Try it you"ll like it"


Been using that on my "E" Codes for years.


Oldmics
 
Are you certain that your timing light is accurate? If yours has the "dial back" knob it could be off a significant amount. Have you verified TDC position using a positive piston stop (like a bolt in #1 spark plug hole)? No guesswork allowed-like eyeballing the rocker arms or looking into the plug hole!
Is the distributor in good shape? (No sloppy points plate, no slop in shaft, no odd wear on points cam, does mechanical advance work (not seized, springs and weights intact))?
Is vacuum advance unit hooked to a ported vacuum source (not manifold vacuum)? Verify that the advance systems are working. With vacuum disconnected, does your timing light show a smooth, gradual increase in timing as RPM goes up? (Take note of the reading at 2,000 RPM.) With vacuum reconnected, timing should be the same at idle but higher at 2,000 RPM. Factory specs show mechanical advance should be 26 deg. at 4,000 RPM. Add the 6 deg. initial for 32 deg. total. With the vacuum connected it should be 45 deg. total.
 
Time the engine with a vacuum gauge. Drive it, if there is no ping, mark the damper at engine off for faster checks with a light. Re-read post six.
 
I have replaced the crankshaft damper pulley; which was off; and confirmed that it aligns with TDC (top dead center). I've also verified that the rotor does point to #1 when at TDC. And that both the intake an exhaust values are closed on #1 at TDC. So this should eliminate the pulley, timing chain and distributor alignment.

I've installed a new electronic ignition, coil and replaced the plugs. I've also inspected all of the plug wires and confirmed that I have no shorting to ground. Also the vacuum appears to be good as well.
Click to expand...


It sounds like a timing problem. As suggested have you verified correct DIST operation (mechanical and vacuum advance)? Your chain may have slipped or been installed incorrectly.

What type of IGN did you install?
 
KULTULZ said:
:confused:

What IGN SYSTEM are you using? Must be hot to burn all of the mixture with such a small gap.
Click to expand...

The larger the gap, the "hotter" the spark! This is because secondary voltage in the coil only rises enough to jump the plug gap. Early coils could not build enough voltage to jump a large gap, so plug gaps were kept small, like .025". As ignition systems improved plug gaps were increased. With the coming of electronic ignitions, gaps went to .045"-.060"; Oldsmobile even ran .080" gaps for a few years. One reason for larger gaps was to prevent misfire with the leaner mixtures required for emissions control.
If a newer car runs better with only .025" plug gap, it has a weak coil or other problem.
 
I have to ask this, not to insult the OP in any way---You were provided a diagram in post #2, your timing light IS in the front plug on the passenger side? I don't see how the engine could run at all if it was timed almost 45 degrees ATDC
 
as 40 said look closely at the diagram provided if you have the light on pass side plug wire then trace the wires one at a time from plug to cap sounds like you are one plug wire off from number 1 this will leave you 45 degrees off.keep us informed
 
40cpe said:
...You were provided a diagram in post #2, ...
Click to expand...
For a while now I've been slightly bugged by that firing order diagram. (shown in post 2)
It was drawn to be viewed from directly above or the left side of the car, But the distributor is angled to the right side of the vehicle and if you're working with the distributor you're leaning over the right side fender. That almost makes the image upside down.

So... to possibly reduce confusion, I edited the image for easier viewing
.
 

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I like that statement !


Y Block Ford with distributor in the rear.


Anybody got a diagram (or an engine) for a Y Block Ford with the distributor in the front ?


Oldmics
 
Oldmics said:
I like that statement !
Y Block Ford with distributor in the rear.
Anybody got a diagram (or an engine) for a Y Block Ford with the distributor in the front ?
Oldmics
Click to expand...
Ok ok, I'll fix it. :p The text was in an older image I copied (below) to have something to start from, found in a quick 'everything on the internet is true' search.
 

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dmsfrr said:
What vehicle is it in? Any major work done on the engine in the past or recently?
Is the vacuum about 19 or 20?
Does the vacuum canister on the distributor work?
Is there a chance the plug wires are a position off in the cap???
Did you install a pertronics kit in the original distributor or swap that distributor for something else?

Was the engine ever running better for you? What else has changed since then?

If you can post photos of the parts you're working with it might help.
.
Click to expand...

- The vehicle is a '57 Thunderbird.
- I've only own the car since Nov'18 so I really can't speak to it's history. I was told when I purchased it that it was restored in '08. I know the engine was out at that time but I'm not sure what if anything has been done to it.
- The vacuum is within spec.
- The vacuum chamber on the distributor appears to be working correctly. We have dismantled, clean and greased the complete top end of the distributor.
- When I 1st purchased the car I did notice that the plug wires were off by one on the cap. At that time I verified TDC and rekeyed the distributor and returned the wires to their correct positions.
- The Pertronic was installed in the original distributor with a new cap, rotor and coil. The issue with the timing existed prior to all of the work mentioned in my original post.

If I adjust the timing by ear I can get the engine to run much better. But at that point the timing appears to be at ~45° advanced.

Other then double checking everything nothing new has been done. My next plain is to rebuild the carburetor. On a separate but possible related note the original choke tub in the intake manifold is completely rotted out. I've bypassed it for now with and installed a choke stove. I will be replacing the choke tub when I rebuild the carb.
 
mytluv said:
... I've only own the car since Nov'18 so I really can't speak to it's history. I was told when I purchased it that it was restored in '08. I know the engine was out at that time but I'm not sure what if anything has been done to it. ...
... the original choke tub in the intake manifold ...
Click to expand...
What casting number is across the top rear of the intake manifold?
What block casting number is above the oil filter?

choke tub? or tube?
.
 

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dmsfrr said:
What casting number is across the top rear of the intake manifold?
What block casting number is above the oil filter?

choke tub? or tube?
.
Click to expand...

- The casting number on the intake manifold is: ECZ-9425-B
- And yes, I meant choke tube. I've already purchased the exact kit that you pictured.
 
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