Front Motor Mount 1956 Year with 302

[Jwawhite]

K, looking at eBay parts, I came across the attached photo. You'll note the similarities between this bracket (for radiator) and my car. I need to find someone with a Wagon and ask what set up is on theirs, rubber, bushings, spring?, etc. Jim is my Ford part supplier out of northern, CA.

 

[KULTULZ]

Jwawhite...

Go back and read POST #39 (Edited) in this thread.

I think... ... I have the mount(s) figured out. Will be back later.

 

[George/Maine]

K, looking at eBay parts, I came across the attached photo. You'll note the similarities between this bracket (for radiator) and my car. I need to find someone with a Wagon and ask what set up is on theirs, rubber, bushings, spring?, etc. Jim is my Ford part supplier out of northern, CA.

That support looks like my 56
What I think happened they did the swap and found out the fenders were loose up and down. You the buyer know that.
First years of upper control arms they used the engine mount to help the cross member. What they did was put a rubber mount in the hole were the engine was bolted. They didn't know of the weak and rotted front cross member so sold it. You could take a 1/4" x 2" x 24" and weld to bottom of cross member. I do believe that mine was changed and have no problems with my 302V8

 

[KULTULZ]

That support looks like my 56

I have a 56sedan and laying on floor best i can get. The rad support is bolted the crossember with 2 bolts and the welding on crossmember looks to be replaced.

If you fenders are bouning up and down you crossmember is weak and needs to be replaced.

What I think happened they did the swap and found out the fenders were loose up and down. You the buyer know that.

First years of upper control arms they used the engine mount to help the cross member. What they did was put a rubber mount in the hole were the engine was bolted. They didn't know of the weak and rotted front cross member so sold it. You could take a 1/4" x 2" x 24" and weld to bottom of cross member.

I do believe that mine was changed and have no problems with my 302V8

George, your core support mount has been modified also (most likely they could not find correct replacement parts).

The OP problem seems to be an incorrect re-assembly after the engine upgrade. The builder installed a biscuit type insulator(s) to replace the original mounting system. At the front of the cross-member the brace that holds up the gravel shield - grille support - latch support was left off and the space taken up by a remote ATF cooler.

Most of the original photos are still within this thread.

Photos of OEM install (and these are not exactly detailed, just what I have come across on the net)-

The first two show how his was re-assembled after the swap and the rest shots of somewhat correct assy. Will need original engineering drawings or an unmolested 56 to determine exact assy and PN's.

 

[KULTULZ]

GOTCHA!

Core Support Insulator - Spring- 1.52in Long - 54-57 FORD - B 8130​

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[George/Maine]

I did see the springs were missing from mine.
I think if you have 2 or more guys just push the bumper up and down and watch the fenders. A good half the weight of car is on the upper control arms and see if the cross member moves and fenders.

 

[KULTULZ]

I did see the springs were missing from mine.

I think if you have 2 or more guys just push the bumper up and down and watch the fenders. A good half the weight of car is on the upper control arms and see if the cross member moves and fenders.

The front suspension upper control arms?

What those springs and pad under the core support do is allow a little flex so as the actual radiator will not absorb road shock. If the core support is directly bolted down, it is going to be hard on the radiator.

The OP has a CA car so most likely a good front cross-member (hopefully).

 

[Jwawhite]

Yes, control arm a bit confusing....the springs are missing on mine also. What I gather is a rectangular rubber bar is mounted to the bottom of the radiator bracket with one spring above and below the crossmember mount - in stock applications. K's comment about radiator damage sounds about right, but does this system mount tighten up the front sheetmetal solidly? Perhaps not, there may be some movement limited by the dedicated connection in front of radiator, i.e. lower bracket, which I installed recently. Driving the car a short distance after install appears to be a fix? Visually inspecting the front of frame closer, I note a rust line crack that follows the texture of the weld bead. (newer front xmember) I may have a failed weld at this area of the front xmember. Late April car may be over at the welders and will ask for a look over/ reweld.

 

[KULTULZ]

OK...

Found a service replacement kit- B-8310-S

SOURCE- http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/engine-partsprices-pg3.htm

It seems these were also used back into the twenties so don't let that throw you off.

 

[KULTULZ]

....the springs are missing on mine also. What I gather is a rectangular rubber bar is mounted to the bottom of the radiator bracket with one spring above and below the crossmember mount - in stock applications.

K's comment about radiator damage sounds about right, but does this system mount tighten up the front sheetmetal solidly? Perhaps not, there may be some movement limited by the dedicated connection in front of radiator, i.e. lower bracket, which I installed recently. Driving the car a short distance after install appears to be a fix?

Visually inspecting the front of frame closer, I note a rust line crack that follows the texture of the weld bead. (newer front xmember) I may have a failed weld at this area of the front xmember. Late April car may be over at the welders and will ask for a look over/ reweld.

No, there is only one spring per side (2) of the actual mount (5019). The insulator rests on the cross-member flange (mounted atop the cross-member) between the bottom of the core support (16138) and the member flange.

This gives correct front sheet metal assy height or it is shimmed as necessary to level. This mount assy, while allowing little movement, absorbs road shock before it reaches the core support/radiator assy.

The front of the cross-member flange mount is fixed (bracket 17899 holding the front gravel shield). No movement is allowed. If the main support is not correct in assy or has a service failure, it will allow the front sheet metal to beat itself to death.

The 2nd mount shown with an insulator in your initial photo was a part of the front engine steady rest assy and can be removed as you have a 302 now.

So briefly, when the tech used a biscuit type mount on the original cross-member flange, it resulted in the front sheet metal assy being too high and not held down-adjusted correctly.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[George/Maine]

Yes, control arm a bit confusing....the springs are missing on mine also. What I gather is a rectangular rubber bar is mounted to the bottom of the radiator bracket with one spring above and below the crossmember mount - in stock applications. K's comment about radiator damage sounds about right, but does this system mount tighten up the front sheetmetal solidly? Perhaps not, there may be some movement limited by the dedicated connection in front of radiator, i.e. lower bracket, which I installed recently. Driving the car a short distance after install appears to be a fix? Visually inspecting the front of frame closer, I note a rust line crack that follows the texture of the weld bead. (newer front xmember) I may have a failed weld at this area of the front xmember. Late April car may be over at the welders and will ask for a look over/ reweld.

The pic# 41 you have found on ebay is what you need. Its bolted to Pic 21 in the 2 holes in xmember.
If put the 2 bolts with springs with both springs on bottom.
Those pics are no good showing factory with one spring on top and one on bottom. I see that pic on ebay $180 but that's the one you need.
I guess when your car was put back on rode it was missing.
The radiator is in rad support and the spring gives some movement but if you don,t have them you don,t need there.

 

[Jwawhite]

K, thank you for helping in trying to figure out the Station Wagon set up between frame and radiator support. There may be no factory info available.
If we look back at "Typical", in relation to a 51a front end, there is a spring between radiator support/frame and another spring mounted below the xmember. Also, there are shims shown inserted just above frame mount.
If my front end was up/ or down, I think a giveaway would be lines at front fender/ door and door/ body. Lines look good so I'm thinking the front sheetmetal is somewhat level--bolts nuts washers are all installed at cowl, fenders, inner fenders and core support.
Now, do I buy springs install with donut rubber washers or call it a day?

 

[KULTULZ]

K, thank you for helping in trying to figure out the Station Wagon set up between frame and radiator support. There may be no factory info available.

If we look back at "Typical", in relation to a 51a front end, there is a spring between radiator support/frame and another spring mounted below the xmember. Also, there are shims shown inserted just above frame mount.

Again, that ILL is 1957 Model Year Specific ONLY. And the exact info is available, only not in the SHOP MANUAL or FINAL ISSUE MPC.

The 1954 to 1956 was different in MTG although both 54/56 and 57) used the spring kit.

Now, do I buy springs install with donut rubber washers or call it a day?

That's going to be entirely up to you. If you are satisfied how she rides as is, then you are good. The actual insulator (1) is rectangular,.62" thick and 2.8" L. No round or doughnut insulators. You replaced the front bracket and that helped a lot.

This was only a learning exercise for myself. It is your car and you have to be personally happy with it.

Did you read the post info on your PATENT PLATE info?

GOOD LUCK with it and enjoy...

 

[Jwawhite]

K, my above was a bit of ruminating on my part, it was a learning experience for me too.
Here's a pic of my VIN plate, some yahoo sanded it. Thinking about wet decal replica with quality decal material combined with glue, heat and urethane spray. Need some help finding someone who can take a photo of theirs that I could use for my wet decal makeup. This stuff can also make replica decals for rest of car.

 

[dmsfrr]

.....Here's a pic of my VIN plate, some yahoo sanded it. Thinking about wet decal replica with quality decal material combined with glue, heat and urethane spray. Need some help finding someone who can take a photo of theirs that I could use for my wet decal makeup. This stuff can also make replica decals for rest of car.

Replacement data plate decal, already made. $1.50
All the '55/'57 Thunderbird restoration parts suppliers have them on-hand.
They also have 'whole car' decal sets from $20 to $50 - depending on how big the set is.
Order from the place that gives you the best shipping price... ?

Example:
https://www.larrystbird.com/product/decal-patent-plate-5557-except-very-late-57/

And several pages of decals, tags, stickers, etc. specifically for '54 to '57 passenger cars...
https://www.larrystbird.com/product...les-1954-1957-ford-passenger-vehicles-decals/
.

 

[Jwawhite]

Doh!

 

[KULTULZ]

The car is a PARKLANE- 59C

Will you still need a PATENT PLATE photo with the decal shown?

 

[56sedandelivery]

This is the one off my 56

 

[Jwawhite]

Yes K I would be interested in a "proper" patent plate decal! I, as of yet, have been unable to find one. The T Bird decal would work and I don't think anyone else would catch it. My car is not a 100 point car, as you know the driveline has been changed out, body, interior colors are not stock and the car needs a lot of detail work. I'd say it's a 10 foot car, looks better at a distance!�� A nice photo of a 54, 55 and 56 Patent Plate--- I think they may be the same? Or just a 56 would be great. I could produce multiples and send them at cost for fellow owners, like 55 sedan delivery.....

 

[dmsfrr]

Yes K I would be interested in a "proper" patent plate decal! I, as of yet, have been unable to find one. The T Bird decal would work and I don't think anyone else would catch it. ...

Jwawhite, I'm not sure what there would be to 'catch', except it being a decal instead of whatever the original paint/printing(?) process was.

With as cost conscious as the Ford bean-counters were about inventory control, I believe this style data plate is not Thunderbird specific and was used on all cars from earlier in the 50's until late '57.
The '55/'57 T-Birds were actually built with a great many off-the-shelf passenger car parts and Ford wouldn't have made such a relatively insignificant item specific to only one line of vehicle.
If I'm not mistaken, the same style Data Plate was also used on the same year Mercury's.

.