dixiedelux
Member
Can someone discuss the process of removing the chatter rod frame attachment? Has any one pulled the block forward enough to clear the rod going through the block attachment hole?
Chatter Rod Removal
- Thread starter dixiedelux
- Start date
Russ/40
Well-known member
Moving the engine forward is not a viable solution in my opinion. You still have to get that special bolt out. You might as well start there. I made the tool with the square fitment. I put two flats on the sides of the tool's shaft. Good downward pressure, combined with a crescent wrench for torque, made it an easy job.
deuce_roadster
Well-known member
Why do you want to remove them? Their purpose is to prevent the engine from moving forward when power is applied to the rear end. Ford called them "engine stay rods" for a reason.
Pomeroy41144
Member
I think he is trying to remove the engine from the frame. And he wants to know if he can pull the engine without removing the engine stay rods.
I say NO. Don't try and remove the engine by sliding them over these rods. Remove the engine stay rods (chatter rods) before pulling the engine. That means you have to pull the floor boards to access the tops of the anti chatter rod bolts. As stated above, the enthusiast can make his own square-head tool to remove the rods. A good quality bolt can be ground down to make the correct size square head tool for removal.
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dixiedelux
Member
The floor boards? I have the transmission access panel off! I (we) are at a disadvantage because my car is in my shop 4 miles from my home. I have no computer there, so I can't go look at car to respond accurately. But from yesterday's memory here is the description of what I have: Mine looks like the rod had been flattened and a pin or stud with no head had been inserted through the flattened part and into the frame rail, but not through. At the top, the pin is flush with the flattened part of the rod.
dixiedelux
Member
Yes, that sounds right. Most guys are saying it is accessed from the top with a 5/16 square socket, of some fabrication. The hole I am feeling, from the bottom, of the frame cross member is tiny; it seems to my feel about an eighth. I only have enough room for my thumb to in there to feel the hole. There is another plate below the hole, about the distance of the thickness of my thumb preventing direct access. I am trying to find the early ford hardware man's site to look at the hardware. Ray Nawisz?
VeryTangled
Well-known member
Roy Nacewicz is at FORDBOLTS.COM
Anton Voycheck
Member
See the first photo in the first post of the link provided. That is what I have found on my Fords. The "cup" shaped end is threaded and the short carriage bolt (with square hole in top) threads into that. There is no cage nut attached to the frame, the chatter rod end is threaded to take the bolt. You may want to try a "Chatter Rod" search on this forum. There are dozens of previous threads concerning this matter.
http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94374&highlight=Chatter+Rods
http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94374&highlight=Chatter+Rods
Kube
Super Moderator
I've answered this on the Ford Club site I thought quite thoroughly.
For others, here we go again: If you don't remove the rods, you will bend them while removing the engine. That's something you want to avoid.
The special bolts that fasten the rods to the frame require a 5/16" square head drive to remove. You can make one out of a hex key (aka: allen wrench).
You may want to apply a little heat to the rod at the area of the threads.
It may help you "picture" what you are attempting to remove: It is a counter-sunk flat head bolt. The frame is counter-sunk to accept the bolt head. The female threads are integral of the rod(s).
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dixiedelux
Member
Thanks Kube! My imagination is having a hard time with the visualization. Use your wisdom and knowledge and tell me if yesterdays recollection of the problem is accurate. Again, I apologize that I cannot go out and access car to look again.
Mine looks like the rod had been flattened and a pin or stud with no head had been inserted through the flattened part and into the frame rail, but not through. At the top, the pin is flush with the flattened part of the rod.
Is access gained from top or bottom?
skidmarks
Well-known member
If the square hole in the counter sunk bolt gets booged up. Weld a nut to the top of it . After the weld cools off they usually unscrew. Then replace the bolt. Also before you put it back together chase all the threads and use some neversieze so the next guy to take it apart has a easier job
Pomeroy41144
Member
Kube
Super Moderator
That bolt used in 1941 was a much better design than the '40 type. Mush easier to remove.
Here's a photo of the 40...
Attachments
TonyM
Well-known member
Here is a Photo of a properly installed "Anti Chatter Rod" from below.
The second photo is a 1937 Ford chatter rod, special flathead square hole bolt, washer and custom made tool.
Third photo shows the two chatter rod holes on top of the frame. If you have the trans cover off, then they are accessible. The left chatter rod hole can be seen just left of the clutch spring. The right chatter rod hole can be seen just above the dog ear of the rear trans mount (it is counter sunk and appears as a dish-shaped hole).
You can access the chatter rod bolts from the top.
If you have something different, then you should post photos so the members can help you.
The second photo is a 1937 Ford chatter rod, special flathead square hole bolt, washer and custom made tool.
Third photo shows the two chatter rod holes on top of the frame. If you have the trans cover off, then they are accessible. The left chatter rod hole can be seen just left of the clutch spring. The right chatter rod hole can be seen just above the dog ear of the rear trans mount (it is counter sunk and appears as a dish-shaped hole).
You can access the chatter rod bolts from the top.
If you have something different, then you should post photos so the members can help you.
Attachments
dixiedelux
Member
Those are very good illustrations, Tony. Let me preface my situation. My 40 has a top loader ****** out of an earlier ford, 39 I hope. The previous owner told me he put in a new front floor. I have the ****** inspection plate, along with the toe boards removed. The rod attachment is a fingers length outside of the transmission inspection plate opening. To make it accessible, some floor board needs removed. To do that welds need to be eliminated. Did the PO put in the wrong floor system in? I don't know! I have the engine out now. And it was an ordeal I never want to do again! And Fords engine stay rods can be shoved up Henry's ***!
Kube
Super Moderator
I don't think it proper to blame Henry. Perhaps the guy that did a poopy job patching in the floors but not Henry.
dixiedelux
Member
How much tolerance do you think Hank allowed for the rod to slide through the attachment on the block. From my estimation it is minuscule. From today's experience, I imagine I would have to drive the rods back through the attachment. What is your experience during re installation? My 40 is dry and now rust free. The PO changed out the front floor and trunk floors. It is obvious he half-assed the tool kit area. The front floor looks OK to me, but I fear not correct. He put it in to accommodate the transmission inspection plate he used, or visa versa. Do some of the earlier years use a front floor/inspection panel that would forbid access of 40 frame to rod attachment? I will try to get some pics soon, of the illustrative quality that Tony provided for me earlier. I am relieved to know that on my 46, Henry alleviated his previous piss poor engineering, and I won't have to repeat today's experience.
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