business coupe's oval window

woodiewagon46 said:
Steve, I have to disagree with you about the picture with the girl. I think what you see is a reflection of the frame. I have owned mine since 1970 and whenever I see one I naturally gravitate to it and have never see one with beveled glass. I don't know of any Model A body style that used bevel glass and why would Ford, being economical as he was incur the extra expense of beveled glass. Like I said I have owned mine since '70 and over the years have seen two "fake" business coupes, both having way too small windows. Oval shaped windows came on several different brands, mostly as back windows, so they could have been inserted on "blind back" Business Coupes. The two flat brackets in the picture go from the belt rail to the rear roof structure on each side of the rear window. Thank's for all your research!
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You might be right on that...Hopefully the archives will have a say.

Pluck
 
Pluck, I blew that photo up and I think it is a reflection as well as a highlight on the frame. There seems to be a similar reflection in the closeup picture at the bottom of that same post. Woodie makes a good point about Ford being economical. I have often wondered why he even produced the 54A, since it entailed so many hand and finish operations: cloth top, special window in the rear in 28-29 and the ovals in '29, and that impossibly delicate belt rail.
 
700rpm said:
Pluck, I blew that photo up and I think it is a reflection as well as a highlight on the frame. There seems to be a similar reflection in the closeup picture at the bottom of that same post. Woodie makes a good point about Ford being economical. I have often wondered why he even produced the 54A, since it entailed so many hand and finish operations: cloth top, special window in the rear in 28-29 and the ovals in '29, and that impossibly delicate belt rail.
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Great point Ray...And maybe that is exactly why he discontinued it!

It still is the best looking Model A Coupe body that Ford assembled!

Pluck
 
Steve Plucker said:
Great point Ray...And maybe that is exactly why he discontinued it!

It still is the best looking Model A Coupe body that Ford assembled!

Pluck
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Agree wholeheartedly. I've owned about 20 A's over the years, and my Business Coupe is my favorite for many reasons, including just a beautiful design.
 
Steve Plucker said:
So here is a breakdown of all the parts that I can come up with pertaining to the "Oval Window" assembly. This is from the November 15, 1929 Body Parts List.

A-51713-B: Bracket (quarter belt rail to Landau iron) R. H.
A-51714-B: Bracket (quarter belt rail to Landau iron) L. H.
(Not sure if the upper two brackets apply to this assembly...I don't think they do as this was a service item...See August 1928 Service Bulletin)
A-54132: Channel (quarter window glass)
A-54120: Frame (quarter light) assy.---outside
A-54125: Frame (quarter light) inside
A-54124: Glass (quarter light)
A-37645-A Insulation (quarter light glass)

Just what the other four brackets are in Vin-tin's photo...I do not know. If they are for the oval window asembly, then I have no idea just how they are spelled out in the Body Parts List.

Seems like I am missing something here...anyone?

Pluck
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Pluck, the curved irons in the picture go from the belt rail and curve around the oval window and fasten to the top bow and the wood at the door post. I think the other 2 irons are supports that get fastened vertically on both sides of the rear window. I believe these 2 are the same on a business coupe and sport coupe.

If you look at Brent's website, and look at the pictures of the '29 business coupe he restored, it shows the two curved irons and there placement.
http://www.model-a-ford.com/proj_3.shtml

Also Pluck, thanks for taking the time to help me research this, as you are a wiz at finding things out about A's.
 
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Wouldn't it look neat, on a 5 window coupe like mine, to bevel ALL the windows? I'd have to mark the bevel locations, before I removed the windows.
I do stained glass & have thought of making panels that could go over the quarter windows. "Maybe" Dog PICS??
Bill W.
 
I have some mirrors from a dresser from the '20's that are beveled, I have some other glass and mirrors from that era ('20's-'30's) that are also beveled, seem that was a big thing, or normal back then. As for Model A's or T's...you got me.
 
One more tid bit of info about these cars.
I've been trying to find as many pictures of '29 business coupes as I can and I think I found another mystery about these cars.
I think I found evidence that there were 2 different styles of brackets that were riveted onto the supports that curve around the oval window.
The first picture was found on Brent's website featuring a car he restored.
Notice the (2) rivets holding the bracket onto the iron.

The second picture shows a bracket with (1) rivet, right in the middle as to being able to swivel for alignment. I believe this picture belongs to Mr. Ray Horton (700rpm) on the barn.

I also found this site which shows a lot of original details including window placement and such.
www.murphysclassics.com/murphys.asp?ID=67&page=previous+projects
 

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Interesting details in those Murphy pictures: '28 dipstick and door upholstery. Early to mid '29 e-brake handle placement. '29 (or later) taillight. Vacuum wiper. Glad to see they kept the trunk, but those headlights? Not my style. It would be very interesting to know the firewall date and frame # on this car. Can we find the current owner?
 
700rpm said:
Interesting details in those Murphy pictures: '28 dipstick and door upholstery. Early to mid '29 e-brake handle placement. '29 (or later) taillight. Vacuum wiper. Glad to see they kept the trunk, but those headlights? Not my style. It would be very interesting to know the firewall date and frame # on this car. Can we find the current owner?[/QUOTE]

Ray,

Email the shop.

Pluck
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Steve Plucker said:
700rpm said:
Interesting details in those Murphy pictures: '28 dipstick and door upholstery. Early to mid '29 e-brake handle placement. '29 (or later) taillight. Vacuum wiper. Glad to see they kept the trunk, but those headlights? Not my style. It would be very interesting to know the firewall date and frame # on this car. Can we find the current owner?[/QUOTE]

Ray,

Email the shop.

Pluck
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Yes, I did that this evening. Busy time for everybody. I'll report back when I hear.
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There is a phone number on their site. Way down on the bottom of the page. Why not just call them.
 
On the Murphy car, it looks like someone got a little carried away with the chrome plating. Windshield frame, oval and rear window frames, both in and out and the rain gutters. The windshield frame and rain gutters might be reproductions of aluminum can't tell. What's with those headlights?
 
Vin-tin said:
One more tid bit of info about these cars.
I've been trying to find as many pictures of '29 business coupes as I can and I think I found another mystery about these cars.
I think I found evidence that there were 2 different styles of brackets that were riveted onto the supports that curve around the oval window.
The first picture was found on Brent's website featuring a car he restored.
Notice the (2) rivets holding the bracket onto the iron.

The second picture shows a bracket with (1) rivet, right in the middle as to being able to swivel for alignment. I believe this picture belongs to Mr. Ray Horton (700rpm) on the barn.

I also found this site which shows a lot of original details including window placement and such.
www.murphysclassics.com/murphys.asp?ID=67&page=previous+projects
Click to expand...

Could of been an early or late change on these brackets within the production period.

I am not even sure of the Part Numbers associated with these brackets as the Body Part List is not that specific although it might tell us but I do not see it.

Again, contact the Ford Archives for the Part Releases and Drawings...Don't depend on he said this or she said that about these parts. Go to the source...The Ford Archives to get "the rest of the story"!

Do a study and an article on it Vin-tin and submit it to one of the Model A magizines for publication! What do you think?

Pluck
 
Steve Plucker said:
Could of been an early or late change on these brackets within the production period.

I am not even sure of the Part Numbers associated with these brackets as the Body Part List is not that specific although it might tell us but I do not see it.

Again, contact the Ford Archives for the Part Releases and Drawings...Don't depend on he said this or she said that about these parts. Go to the source...The Ford Archives to get "the rest of the story"!

Do a study and an article on it Vin-tin and submit it to one of the Model A magizines for publication! What do you think?

Pluck
Click to expand...

I guess if I was after a "Henry Award" I would be motivated to do that. I was just curious as to what is correct. If there's this much uncertainty about what's correct or not on these cars, how do the judges know what's correct? The judging standards have zero info on it.
 
Vin-tin said:
I guess if I was after a "Henry Award" I would be motivated to do that. I was just curious as to what is correct. If there's this much uncertainty about what's correct or not on these cars, how do the judges know what's correct? They go to the archives and research the subject out. The judging standards have zero info on it. Yes it does...so why not research it out yourself, send your findings to the JSC Committies so they can include your findings in the next revision then do an article on the subject for MARC or MAFCA?[/QUOTE]

Vin-tin...You do not have to go for a 'Henry Award" to accomplish anything...You said yourself "I was just curious as to what is correct".

So if that is your goal...to find out "what is correct"...then do as I have suggested...get the neccessary information from the Ford Archives and be done with it.

Yes I know...a lot of guys just hammer and hammer and hammer when all they have to do is bite the bullet, go to the archives, spend a little money (ouch) towards some Part Releases and Drawings then review them and arrive at a logical conclusion.

If you do not want to do that, then just keep hammering away BUT you can also contact the archives by mail and they can do some onsite research for you. Just come up with the needed questions that you need to ask, submit $35.00 for the research, they will do it for you and they will get back to you with the "correct" answers so you will know "what is correct"!

Please let us know what you come up with

Pluck
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Steve Plucker said:
Vin-tin said:
I guess if I was after a "Henry Award" I would be motivated to do that. I was just curious as to what is correct. If there's this much uncertainty about what's correct or not on these cars, how do the judges know what's correct? They go to the archives and research the subject out. The judging standards have zero info on it. Yes it does...so why not research it out yourself, send your findings to the JSC Committies so they can include your findings in the next revision then do an article on the subject for MARC or MAFCA?[/QUOTE]

Vin-tin...You do not have to go for a 'Henry Award" to accomplish anything...You said yourself "I was just curious as to what is correct".

So if that is your goal...to find out "what is correct"...then do as I have suggested...get the neccessary information from the Ford Archives and be done with it.

Yes I know...a lot of guys just hammer and hammer and hammer when all they have to do is bite the bullet, go to the archives, spend a little money (ouch) towards some Part Releases and Drawings then review them and arrive at a logical conclusion.

If you do not want to do that, then just keep hammering away BUT you can also contact the archives by mail and they can do some onsite research for you. Just come up with the needed questions that you need to ask, submit $35.00 for the research, they will do it for you and they will get back to you with the "correct" answers so you will know "what is correct"!

Please let us know what you come up with

Pluck
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I'm too cheap Pluck, so I'll probably just keep "hammering away" like I've been doing.:p
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