Engine Hard To Start Question

[Bob Grieb]

You said I could ask dumb questions so here is my first one.

I have tried to get the engine of a 1930 Model A to run and have had little success.

I have only had the vehicle a few weeks and in that time I have had the Zenieth carburetor rebuilt and verified that the plugs are producing a spark. I replaced the condenser and set the points. I checked the compression and it is low (50,40, 50, 35). I set the timing by verifying the postion of the distributer when # 1 cylinder was a TDC. When I attempt to start the engine it is difficult to start and when I get it started it may run 20 seconds then stops.

I returned the carburetor to the rebuilder once because it was leaking fuel. I was told the float was faulty and it was repaired.

I am not sure where to look next to resolve the problem. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Thanks

Bob

 

[tuneman]

I would disconect the fuel line from the carb. Have the fuel lever turned on and blow hard into the fuel line to see if sediment is cloging the fuel valve. Hook it back up and see what happens!

 

[howie123]

I am fairly new to the Model A hobby but I will share some words of wisdom that were once shared with me. " Ninety percent of all carburetor problems are in the ignition". Maybe go back and check the timing again step by step. Also make sure spark lever works and is properly set. Just keep at it with a methodical approach and you will get it.

 

[RichPA]

Pull the plugs. If they are wet, they may be fouled from the carb problem, if dry you may not be getting fuel. These engines dont need much choke, you should open the choke on about the first revolution of the crank. If choked too much it will be flooded and possibly have fouled plugs.

 

[mrtexas]

You said I could ask dumb questions so here is my first one.

I have tried to get the engine of a 1930 Model A to run and have had little success.

I have only had the vehicle a few weeks and in that time I have had the Zenieth carburetor rebuilt and verified that the plugs are producing a spark. I replaced the condenser and set the points. I checked the compression and it is low (50,40, 50, 35). I set the timing by verifying the postion of the distributer when # 1 cylinder was a TDC. When I attempt to start the engine it is difficult to start and when I get it started it may run 20 seconds then stops.

I returned the carburetor to the rebuilder once because it was leaking fuel. I was told the float was faulty and it was repaired.

I am not sure where to look next to resolve the problem. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Thanks

Bob

Did anyone teach you how to start a Model A? Retard the spark all the way up. Advance the throttle a little. Where is your GAV set? The GAV is adjusted by turning the choke rod. Close it all the way and then back out 1 turn. Hit the starter and in the next instance pull the choke out and then back in ASAP. It should start when the choke goes back in.

IMHO check the timing with a timing light. You can buy a timing indicator for $10 to mount by the crank pulley. When I checked with a timing light, my timing was off by 20 degrees vs the manual method. When I set the timing correct, no problems with starting and none with overheating either.

If you still can only run for 20 seconds after the above, you aren't getting gas to the carburetor.

 

[IrishHills]

I'm new to model a's too, found one thing for sure, the timing has to be right! have you read this?
http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm

 

[Bob Grieb]

Thanks for all the responses. I believe I am getting fuel as I have checked for restrictions. I did learn the starting method by watching a YouTube video. It agrees with what you described and I believe I am executing it as described.

I have a timing light but I am not sure how to use it on a Model A. Can you elaborate on the method I should use for using the timing light.

I am not sure what you mean by the term "IMHO"

Thanks for the help!

Bob

 

[Stillrunners]

positive grounded.....or does it matter to anyone....

 

[Bob Grieb]

Thanks for the information
Model 'A' Ignition Timing - Making It Right

I need to sit down this evening and digest it. One point that I failed to mention is that the distributer has a moderm cap. I think it may be difficult to determine proper position but I will give it a try in the morning.

Thanks for your help

Bob

 

[RichPA]

"In My Honest Opinion"

 

[metalho]

Did anyone teach you how to start a Model A? Retard the spark all the way up. Advance the throttle a little. Where is your GAV set? The GAV is adjusted by turning the choke rod. Close it all the way and then back out 1 turn. Hit the starter and in the next instance pull the choke out and then back in ASAP. It should start when the choke goes back in.

IMHO check the timing with a timing light. You can buy a timing indicator for $10 to mount by the crank pulley. When I checked with a timing light, my timing was off by 20 degrees vs the manual method. When I set the timing correct, no problems with starting and none with overheating either.

If you still can only run for 20 seconds after the above, you aren't getting gas to the carburetor.

BIG TIME DITTO ON THE CHOKE. Its getting colder out. Good luck.

 

[randy randolph]

theres a good chanch your sucking air at the manifold

 

[pat in Santa Cruz]

Thanks for the information
Model 'A' Ignition Timing - Making It Right

I need to sit down this evening and digest it. One point that I failed to mention is that the distributer has a moderm cap. I think it may be difficult to determine proper position but I will give it a try in the morning."

ok, with a modern cap you can get the wires crossed. Timing order is 1-2-4-3. #1 terminal is at 4 o'clock as you face it from the passenger side. The rotor rotates counter clockwise. Forget timing it with a light for now. The most certain method is at marco's site, linked in a post above. Be sure the rotor turns as the engine turns.

 

[snowbird06]

Just a thought. If it runs for only about 20 seconds I would check to see if the gas cap is vented properly. Sometimes the cork sealing gasket swells up and covers the small vent holes in the cap. I had this on my car. If this is the case just trim back the gasket slightly near the smll vent holes to fully expose the 2 holes. It is also possible that the cap is a unvented aftermarket replacement....Snowbird06

 

[Jack '29 Sport Coupe]

If it runs for a few seconds and then stops perhaps the ferrules on the
fuel line are jammed in too far, thus preventing the gas to flow. remove
the lines where they go into the carburator and the sediment bowl and
see how far down the line they go. The tapered ferrule should be about
an 1/8th. of an inch from the end of the line on both ends.

Jack

 

[Mitch//pa]

 

[Bob Grieb]

Thanks for all the information you folks have provided. As soon as it warms up this morning I am going to make another push to get it started using all of the pointers provided. After reading the article on timing I am going to start there then move through the list.
Thanks
Bob

 

[V4F]

timing , timing , timing ................ steve

 

[Mike V. Florida]

I've run engines with only starter fluid. Might want to try it to see if you can get it to run for a minute or two.

 

[Larry Seemann]

Have you taken the gas line loose from the carb and turned on the fuel valve to see if you have fuel flow? I've seen after market fuel valves that worked opposite of original - handle vertical was off. And, of course, there is always the possibility of an obstruction.